Topic: Haiwan Uke - Where's the Emphasis/Focus ?

[JimmyTheHoover]

Several Shotokan Katas feature Haiwan-Uke - you know the one - Like a High Jodan Uchi-Uke/Uchi with one hand and a simultaneous Gedan-Barai with the other (performed on Kokutsu-Dachi) - usually in a mirrored pair of double blocks with the first one sometimes entered after a Kata Kia-point such as Chudan Oi-Tsuki or Testui-Uchi or Similar with the first of the double blocks entered into by a counter clockwise 90 Degrees rotation......

So - question is - where is the focus or emphasis in this movement ? - mainly Gedan-Barai or equal between both blocks ? or is one "merely" Kamae - or should that be Hiki-Te ? 

[Moley]

If doing Kata for kata's sake and as a kata...then I would say that both are of equal importance and so both should have equal simultaneous kime...

As for the Bunkai...Well !

depends if you are into
a) Stick to the artificial karate rules made up bunkai
b) Workable self defence bunkai
c) Push hands bunkai
e) Budhist Meditation

[JimmyTheHoover]

I end to agree that it depends on the situation Moley 

...strange that seems to apply to most of Shotokan as well....

...o.k. I'll start the ball rolling since I was hoping to get some discussion going - in the "Kata" scenario I tend to favour concentraing on the Gedan Barai - treating it as an Uchi (like I tend to try with most of my blocks - who was it that said that your intent with your "block" should be to demolish your opponent ?) so I go for about two thirds "effort" on the Uchi....

....now if I was throwing someone......

[Moley]

Look at this photo.

[JimmyTheHoover]

I'd really rather not - no offence M-B 

....although that looks more like an "Uke-Kaeshe" (?spelling?) - "A-la Heian Sandan" variant application to me than the Haiwan/Gedan-Uke 

[Lloydie]

I'd really rather not - no offence M-B   

  I know - the good looking dude on the left must make you soooo jealous 

if I recall correctly, we were doing Tekki Shodan. Did you see the "Human Weapon" programme on the History Channel - the one on Krav Maga?  Lots of the basic defence/attack moves seemed to be pretty similar to this.

Apart from the moves involving the M16 rifle of course 

[JimmyTheHoover]

I'd really rather not - no offence M-B   

  I know - the good looking dude on the left must make you soooo jealous 

if I recall correctly, we were doing Tekki Shodan. Did you see the "Human Weapon" programme on the History Channel - the one on Krav Maga?  Lots of the basic defence/attack moves seemed to be pretty similar to this.

Apart from the moves involving the M16 rifle of course 

NO !!!  and No 

...Did you tape it ? - wasn't there also a proggie about Okinawan Karate you were trying to get taped ?

[Lloydie]

NO !!!  and No   

...Did you tape it ? - wasn't there also a proggie about Okinawan Karate you were trying to get taped ?

Yes and Yes    Moley's got the karate one at the mo

[JimmyTheHoover]

Bump Bump Bumpity Bump........