Topic: 'Amazing Spirit' or 'Outright Mad'

[Susan]

Have any of you seen Scott Langley's article in the current SKM - "Kenshusei: The JKS Instructors Course"?

What's your verdict - 'amazing spirit' or 'outright mad'?

In case you haven't seen it, Scott Langley describes his experiences on a JKS Instructors course where he's regularly beaten up by the Japanese instructors and treated like dirt both in and out of the dojo. He presents it as a positive experience, believing that this brutal treatment taught him to push himself beyond his limits.

In his editorial, John Cheetham suggests that whilst some might admire his spirit for seeing the course through others might think he's mad to put up with "shit like that".

What do you think?

[Huw]

Is there any way to read the article on-line ? I've never even read SKM never mind the article in question !!

Anybody got a copy I can borrow ?

[Moley]

Huw : Mole bach orders copies direct from J.C (John Cheetham) will bring some Thurs. Get your name on his list.

Here's my reply:

Quote from an interview I did with Akita Sempai for Shotokan Magazine

G.M. = Gwyn  S.A = Shinji Akita.
For full article see :

http://www.wtkf.ndo.co.uk/sempai.htm

G.M.:   Dave Hooper said in his article that he never enjoyed training at Takudai.  Did you enjoy it?

S.A.:   No, I never enjoyed it.  It was a valuable experience for me, but when I look back I still remember.  I can't pretend now that I enjoyed it.  I am happy that I have done it, it was a very special place.  I was there for four years; it was good for my karate.  But, I wouldn't like to do it again.

One night after a couple of drinks  Paul talked to Akita San about this period in his life, he was more open about it with Paul and was visibly upset. Paul says that Akita San was traumatised by this experience.

I agree with Susan that what Scott Langley went through was unecessary. This shows how much I’ve changed during the last 25 years. I remember one nights training when I was a yellow belt, ending up in hospital for a week. I was shi##ing myself, I really thought I WAS GOING TO DIE! This happened purely because I had dared to beat a Brown and white belt at Juy kumite.. Training has changed for the better because these methods cannot improve training. How can you be better, stronger, faster when:
a)This injures your body.
b)You lose all your members
c)Everybody hates you.

When our group in Wales first decided to affiliate to a Japanese Sensei, we had a choice of several Japanese instructors.
We decided upon Kawasoe Sensei for the following reasons.
1. He is a gentleman.
2. He can teach.
3. He would never resort to brutality.
4. He’s the best in the World

Oss

[Lloydie]

(copy of post to the Scottie site)

I got my copy of SKM last night.  I read Scott Langley's article last night and again this am.  What he describes is a process commonly used by the military, especially the elite units, to weed out the weak and push those who continue, to extremes.  In military terms it is highly useful, but I really doubt the use in terms of karate.  This was an instructors course.  However, to quote Mr Langley "learning how to teach was no part of the course".  Whilst it may have been beneficial for Mr Langley's development, I can't see how being seriously assaulted on a regular basis for apparently whimsical reasons, benefits karate as a whole.  I thought the idea of having an elite of JKS instructors was so that they could carry "best practice" gleaned from training with the best, to the rest of the world.  Is this really what "ordinary" karateka want from their instructors?  to be brutalised into some sort of unthinking machine?  Mr Langley finishes off the article with "it gave me a sense of how to train".  Will he then continue in this brutal way in his own clubs?
 
I think we all want to push purselves to our limits, and I agree with Susan that to do something mad, that pushes you to extremes is worthwhile.  It is how we do this, forcing ourselves (or being forced) to realise that we always have "something left in the tank" is really useful.  Being brutalised, humiliated and casually assaulted in the guise of a "learning process" is not useful to what we do IMHO.
 
Dave

[gizmo]

I have not trained under Mr Kagawa nor have I met or trained with Scott Langley. I have however heard nothing but glowing reports about the standard of their karate. It is all the more regretful to hear reports of such systematic brutality. Cutting through all the 'good for the spirit' nonsense this was clearly a case of common assault. Mr Langley regardless of his reasons for continuing to put up with this treatment has a right to expect better behaviour from a senior instructor. Mr Kagawa has the moral and I suspect legal duty to care for the welfare of the students under his instruction.