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Author Topic: Back to basics  (Read 4079 times)

Offline Mole Bach

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Back to basics
« on: May 02, 2003, 10:00:23 PM »
Whilst practicing Kata last night in the third class, I became pre-occupied with the final oi-zuke in the Kata Kanku-Sho; something was different.

After practicing it a number of times, whilst the other show-off's were jumping up in the air, it dawned on me that

1 punching from the uche ude uke after turning was faster than whilst performing consecutive punches in a straight line.
2 why the bl**** h*** had I been so slow in picking this up.

I'm not one to cut around the bushes (re Eryl-speak), so here's to the point.

After training, I commendeered Paul and Eryl to scrutinise the steping action delivered from both Kata and Kihon (ie moving straight up and down) and lo and behold, I've been doing it wrong for years, no wonder I've been so b***** slow in my attacks during Go-hon and Ki-hon Kumite.

The problem, Jiku-ashi, or rather not enough of it; been going round work today practising it (much to the ammusement and bewilderment of some of my 'learned' collegues).

Just goes to show, you learn something new every day, no matter who you are, OR which grade you are.

So from now on, It's back to the standard lesson of oi-zuke all night.

 :D  :D  :D
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2003, 10:28:58 PM »
Mole Bach wrote:
Quote
no wonder I've been so b***** slow in my attacks during Go-hon and Ki-hon Kumite.

Funny, Azzy was saying the same thing about you just last week, he said if you didn't improve, he was bringing a sketch pad to while away the time waiting for you to attack   :twisted:   :twisted:  :twisted:

Lloydie
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Offline Azzy_Stealth

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2003, 03:11:57 PM »
:lol:

Thanks Lloydie. You really I like dropping me in it! :?

But you must have got it wrong. I said no such thing! :P
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Offline Moley

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Re: Back to basics
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2003, 06:44:46 PM »
Quote from: Mole Bach

So from now on, It's back to the standard lesson of oi-zuke all night.

 :D  :D  :D


Good point.
After sensei Kawasoe's recent visit, I think the point is:
Most people can't punch their way out of a wet paper bag ! They seem to think that "Going through the motions is Punching"
Hence our efforts to re-introduce "The knockout punch"
But !  BIG PROBLEM !

How can we teach this when most people have never experienced these techniques ? (i.e. Knocking out an opponent)
This is not allowed nowadays and I'm sure that Eryl, Gizmo, Mole bach and myself agrere thatwe should never do it again !
So what do we do to show that most punches are ineffective ?
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2003, 07:25:53 PM »
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So what do we do to show that most punches are ineffective ?

Suggestions:

Training pads?  may help focus punches and give some physical feedback

There was a thread some time ago about visiting each others' makiwaras and testing them out.

I think the emphasis on "small points" (although these are anything but minor!) is excellent.  Hikite, in particular is something I really need to keep working on.  I guess the question is how we get "instant" feedback for a "good" punch.  

Maybe using video as well?  

lloydie
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2003, 08:13:12 PM »
Good old Lloydie !
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Offline Mole Bach

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Re: Back to basics
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2003, 09:10:03 PM »
Quote from: Moley
How can we teach this when most people have never experienced these techniques ? (i.e. Knocking out an opponent)
This is not allowed nowadays and I'm sure that Eryl, Gizmo, Mole bach and myself agrere thatwe should never do it again !
So what do we do to show that most punches are ineffective ?


Moley,

Are you sure that HE thinks like this :?:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Quote from: Dave
Maybe using video as well?


Ahh Lloydie, so you're now endorsing Wes's little enterprise!!
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Offline Huw

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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2003, 09:15:17 PM »
Quote from: dave
Training pads?  may help focus punches and give some physical feedback

lloydie


I definately agree with the idea of doing more pad work  =P~  =P~  though where it would fit in to training sessions is anyone's guess. The physical feedback that results from hitting a hard pad would do us all the power of good.
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Offline Jewels

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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2003, 10:20:40 PM »
We could have extra lessons in boxing and punching Makiwara bags,
       and we could use Moley as a hard pad :D
       and we could have positive mindset tips on these Gradings..
       and we could have video feedback and be appalled :oops:
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Offline Moley

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Re: Back to basics
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2003, 07:54:05 AM »
Quote from: Moley
Quote from: Mole Bach

So from now on, It's back to the standard lesson of oi-zuke all night.

 :D  :D  :D


Good point.
After sensei Kawasoe's recent visit, I think the point is:
Most people can't punch their way out of a wet paper bag ! They seem to think that "Going through the motions is Punching"
Hence our efforts to re-introduce "The knockout punch"
But !  BIG PROBLEM !

How can we teach this when most people have never experienced these techniques ? (i.e. Knocking out an opponent)
This is not allowed nowadays and I'm sure that Eryl, Gizmo, Mole bach and myself agrere thatwe should never do it again !
So what do we do to show that most punches are ineffective ?


Any comments on the new way that the beginners/lower grades are now being taught punching/kicking. i.e. "In two stges, first nearly there then the wallop at the end" Then the fast way. ?? Feedback please !
Also comments on how Jack (Little boy approx 6 yers old, red belt) punches.

Moley
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Offline Huw

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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2003, 12:08:00 PM »
I like the new punching training - and I also think the 'system' works for other techinques as well. One of the benefits I could see last night was with stances - students weren't trying to 'reach' so far with punches and were dong a better job of keeping their shoulders square.

Earlier in this thread we discussed pad work and the value of actually hitting something solid. Would there be any value in combining this new learning system with some occasional pad work ? Sounds like a good idea to me but I know there are many other pressures on the teaching side.

Huw
BTW if your going to introduce pads please wait until I come back from my hols !!!!!  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:
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Offline Azzy_Stealth

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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2003, 10:50:58 AM »
Quote
Huw
BTW if your going to introduce pads please wait until I come back from my hols !!!!!  


Bring me back a nice bottle of red!  =P~
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2003, 07:40:51 PM »
great sessions by Dave Hooper last night - I especially liked the "rocking" exercise to get the forward/backward movement and cement the jiku ashi in position.  One to practice every day!

The group of 4 I was in, kicking mawashi reminded me of a Simpsons episode when the dysfunctional family was wired together so that anyone inflicting pain through electric shock could get one back......we all started off with light touches...then the mistakes(?) kicked in (pun intended) until we were all going chong-for-tong at each other and loving it.  Great fun!!

as always the emphasis was on basic movement and form, so easy when you watch the high grades do it, so difficult to piece it together.

what did others think of the sessions?

lloydie
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2003, 07:51:33 PM »
Tsuyama sensei


...Bump !
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Offline wani

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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2004, 12:04:52 PM »
G'day, first posting on the forum.  8)

I appreciate that this is an 'old' thread, and as a newcomer to Thursday evening training, has the club moved to using pads or other 'solid' objects to assist karateka with measuring the accuracy, power and ultimately effectiveness of punches or kicks delivered, particularly as part of combinations?
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