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Author Topic: Mature Students  (Read 6231 times)

Offline Moley

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« on: November 04, 2002, 12:56:02 PM »
Some of the Kids and Cadets (Young adults) are now becoming quite good Kumite fighters. We all enjoy watching them and the instructors do a good job coaching them. However have you noticed that the instructors are reluctant to let the Hmmmm "Mature" students have a go.
Rather they are given loads of Juy ippon or Nandemo Sanbon.
I know this stems from an idea that they can control the Kid's fights better and also that they don't want the "older" members to get injured or to be put off Karate. I know that some older members prefer to do as little Juy kumite as possible. (I have got to go to work tomorrow)
But what do you think?
Do you want more practice?  How could we do it ?
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2002, 03:42:55 PM »
Hi Moley,

              As one of the "more mature" students :wink: I do feel we oldsters could do a bit more in jyu kumite terms.  (I had not actually put the lack down to the gentle kindness of the instructors  :lol: )

Personally, I would like to do more work on distancing in jyu kumite eg moving in and out of opponents range, especially with different sized opponents.  I think (in the little jyu kumite I have done) that you tend to get carried away with trying to "win" without actually learning an awful lot.  However, the exposure to "actual fighting" is good in itself I think.

One thing i came across on another site was mention of using a heavy "vest" to protect oneself,  whilst an opponent tried to get through with clean attacks.   The vest wearer was not allowed to strike back - only to block.  I think the grading before last Kawasoe sensei was concerned at the lack of blocking in jyu kumite?  Perhaps we could give this a go? Or some variant of it?

Dave
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Offline Icy

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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2002, 09:40:11 PM »
Hi Moley

I think Dave is indirectly asking for some sessions so that he can practise his falling down seven times..... :lol:

Personally, I would find some practise useful. I haven't done any of that since leaving my old club and it was done very differently there (yes I know - it was shukokai!  :roll: - so I'm starting from scratch then!)

About the chest vest thing - this can be a worry for the ladies. I think that all students of karate take care with regard to not 'aiming' for the groin area regardless of the sex of their opponent, but I often found that when practising kumite (especially with cadets,) they don't seem to be aware of the fact that they should not attempt to strike a female opponent’s chest.
There are special chest protectors for women, but they are very uncomfortable and not very practical! :(
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2002, 10:54:05 PM »
Mmmm And yet we all saw Hefin Francis's superb performance on grading day . Doing kumite against an opponent nearly 20 yrs his junior and dominating the fight even though Hefin's diet was purely kihon.

Ahh strategy you know..
Ask around about Simon A Jones...Whose diet was also purely Kihon.
........to start with :evil:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :lol:  :lol:
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Offline gizmo

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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2002, 11:00:37 PM »
On the issue of using protection whilst sparring, my experience is that such things can lead to ineffective defensive approaches. I used to wear a cricket box but was often hit where it hurts :cry: . Since dispensing with the offending object (the box :oops: ) I haven't been hit once (I really hope I'm not tempting fate here) :shock: . I think the same might happen with chest protectors for ladies.
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Offline Icy

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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2002, 06:31:12 PM »
I certainly agree about being able to move in a much more fluid manner when not constricted by proctetive gear.

Having said that, I have it on good authority that Mad Frankie was indeed wearing a cricket box for the grading  - perhaps the sense of security helped!. but yes Moley, his performance was indeed superb. (especially for a 68 yr old!)
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Offline Jon C

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What's practice ?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2002, 08:39:03 PM »
Yes, practice would be great + some tactics.

The only practice I have had so far is fighting a very excited
son of a chiropodist in his shodan grading after 30 seconds notice.
(I did manage to swallow the mint I was illegally eating before we started).

Still I survived and I hope it was noticed how deftly I blocked
a yokogeri kekomi with my chest.
Is that the right idea?
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Offline Moley

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Mint
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2002, 09:01:12 PM »
I'm afraid it was the mint. You were seen eating a Mint in the Grading...We were all dying for one and did you share ?? Did you h**ll.
Immediately everyone on the Grading table said.
"Look at Jon Cannon eating a MINT..HOW DARE HE"

"Get him up to do some kumite..."

How do you know that fella was the son of a Chiropodist ???
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2002, 09:06:03 PM »
Quote
How do you know that fella was the son of a Chiropodist ???



Jon noticed his well trimmed toenails whilst blocking the Kekomi  :lol:

Dave
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Offline Huw

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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2002, 01:59:41 PM »
Does this mean that mints should carry a health warning ??

"Eating mints could lead to chest pains"

H

Reminds me of the 'Dave Jackson Plastic Surgery Clinic' in Edinburgh !!  8)
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Offline Lloydie

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timing and distance
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2002, 07:04:44 PM »
I thought that was a smart bit of kumite we did in the 2nd session on Thursday - I, for one, would like to do a bit more of it.   The thing I still have problems with is thinking of the counter before I have actually sussed out the attack.  What about having one opponent attacking and the defender is only allowed to defend/move/block ?

In particular I noticed how the senior grades were always that little bit out of reach of the opponent, yet where able to counter quickly.  I'd like to have a go at just keeping out of reach with body movement (as opposed to jumping back like startled deer!).  What do others think?

Dave
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2002, 09:02:05 AM »
Interesting: A parallel conversation is going on in this topic on the Tora Kai forums. They like us are debating whether or not to "Do more Jiuy Kumite". Now remember they are currently the U.K.Kumite champions.

Graeme McClaren (One of their instructors.) wrote :

Susan I (like most of us) do not practice freestyle often in the club because I do think that your kihon training equips you well enough. Also the type of pre-arranged sparring that we tend to practice as an association, such as sliding in gyaku-tsuki or kizami-tsuki are basically 90% of the techniques used in competition.

Robert Redpath (Another instructor) wrote:
The trouble with jiyu kimite in a 'normal' class is you have such a mix of ages/grades/abilities (and motivation!) to deal with and it can be hard enough making sure everybody at least gets what they need for exams etc. then add on other relevant stuff e.g. perhaps some bunkai or taking a short sequence of techniques and working out the opponents sequence or something geared towards understanding distance or timing....the list could go on. Possibly in a club like the Uni, it would be easier because the majority are likely to be about the same age/size/etc. (I know this is a generalisation but you know what I mean)
Happilly, as stated by Graeme, kihon and pre-arranged sparring will almost always be beneficial to jiyu kumite as well. If Kenny said everything is kumite, it is not a phrase I have heard before but it makes sense. Possibly we train so much in a formal manner, without even facing an opponent, we tend to forget that.
Also, are we differentiating here between sparring (as something approaching a 'real' situation) and sparring (in preparation for a competition) I think there are differences - not that many, but important all the same.
 

What do the Seki think ?
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Offline Mole Bach

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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2002, 11:42:38 PM »
KIhon, Kata and Kumite??

I believe that it is a steady progression in all aspects.

Kihon
8th kyu grading
Age-uke 5 times
Gedan-barrai 5 times
Nidan grading
Kizami-mae-geri, mae-geri Kizami-zuke gyaku-zuki, kizami-mawashi-geri, mawashi-geri  etc, etc

Kata
7th kyu grading
Heian nidan
Yondan grading
Sochin

Kumite
Gohon Ippon
Kihon Ippon
Juy-ippon
Nan-demo
Shobu-ippon

I believe that mastery (or at least proficiency) of the basics of Kumite will benefit you rather than rushing for 'all out fighting' as the juniors do.  In all fairness, yes, the 'kids' do love to "mix it" a bit, and do get to practice Kumite more often than the adults/oldies, however, should one take a closer look at them and count the number of mistakes/faults in their stance/distance/target/timing etc, then look at the adults (or at least the ones with a little gray matter) performing Gohon-ippon, I think you would be pleasently surprised. :D
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2003, 01:50:18 PM »
Attitude

I LOVE it

When Lloydie went to fight that young gun in the grading on Saturday, all I wanted was for Lloydie to start getting some experience and to get him used to the nerves of a grading. The young lad was big, strong, fast AND going for SHODAN. So I wasn't expecting Lloydie to do what he did.
Lloydie was up there to win, and was full of, "Should've done this or that...Mmmm I'll get him next time"

GREAT attitude Lloydie.
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2003, 05:26:36 PM »
arigatou gozaimasu Moley,

I really enjoyed the experience, I have been thinking a lot about it.  Although I was a bit disappointed with the latter half of the kumite, I learned loads of stuff to work on - eg not to go high out of stance and to work the distances better.
 One thing I came away with was a feeling that I was thinking too much and not enough.
ie - thinking too much about what to throw next, which reduced speed etc, and not thinking enough about "reading" the opponent.

How have the higher grades overcome this?

lloydie
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