Author Topic: Kumite  (Read 1616 times)

Offline Andyeilio

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,114
    • View Profile
Kumite
« on: October 21, 2008, 11:49:11 AM »
I learnt a couple of important points in Kumite last night, but also had a few questions, and would appreciate comments.

I have been informed that my Soto ukes are too hard, they used to go to far over, and I think I have corrected this, but I have also had comments that they are too firm, ie my arm is too stiff, I am not sure how I can correct this, am I using the wrong muscle group, or just not relaxing enough? Of course I don’t want them to slow down either......

Also had a good discussion with B&D on the way home (thanks B&D) around distancing, I tend to alter my distance to allow for my opponent, but perhaps by my body distance rather than my upper body, should I get in as close as possible, and then lean back to ensure I have the correct distance, or should I step a little shorter?

I plan to view Sensei's video again, specifically in regard to the above.
Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all

Offline JimmyTheHoover

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • I Used To Kick Like This :(
    • View Profile
    • Routertech - The Site For All  Things Networking
Re: Kumite
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 02:34:14 PM »
IMO - don't ever lean if you can help it - get the distance right.

Regarding "too hard" - that's a tricky one...... whilst you don't "necessarily" want to "club" your training partner into submision Funakoshi tells us to treat each block as and attack with the intent to destroy our attacker.....

...so I guess then that we need to be able to deliver the blocks in a training environment with proper form and "enough" power/deflection to creat the opening to counterattack without damaging the attacking limb.

BTW - I don't consider bruiising as excessive force.... and in fact when I'm successfully blocked I tend to try harder with the attack next time irrespective of the force of the block.....

So technique then - sotu-ude-uke - outside to inside block. Assuming Kihon Basic Blocking here - Blocking hand High (secondary) and primary blocking/striking hand fully thrust to the front (helps deter the attacjker somewhat if done forcefully as well as adding to the block)- body/hips should be in shomen/square-on position.

Starting with the hips pull the forward hand back and simultaneously rotate and drop the the raised arm to block the attacking limb.

Having the blocking arm high and dropping it down (think like cutting with a katana) to meet the attacking limb is important - as opposed to just having the fist shoulder high throughout and simplys rotating in a circular arc - the downward action combined with the circular action shoudl help make the block more effec tive with less power as it will disrupt the attacking limb in two axes - most limbs when striking are stronger in one axis than the other so attacking it in both "vectors" is advantageous.

Now - where to strike/contact the attacking limb ? - the obvious answer is "as far along the limb from the attackers body as practicale" - and this works for me.

In practice this means just bufore or on the wrist joint for a punch attack - any further and you risk missing completely if you time it wrong and any earlier and you lose leverage.

Last point - try to keep the "blocking hand/wrist" "in counter tension" (i.e. if blocking with left hand the raised hand/wrist shoudl start off rotated/twisted/tensioned counter clockwise) throughout  the blocvking motion - ideally until you contact the attacking limb - then twist/snap into fully rotated position (clockwise in the left hand blocking example).


Phew ! (Flameproof Suit Engaged  :D)

So now you know "how"  to perform the block - you now need the experience to judge how much force to put into te block for each opponent depending on how strongly they attack - practice practice practice.

I suspect from what you've said that a big part of your problem is "distance/Mai-ai" - get the distabnce correct - don't lean - don't herk the block and try and use strength - rely on your technique to make your blocks better.


Jim
The Longest Journey Begins With A Single Stumble..... ;)

RouterTech.org - The Site for all things Networking !

Spam this e-mail address - we need spam for research:  givemespam99@yahoo.co.uk

Offline B&D

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Fast is good but accurate is better.
    • View Profile
Re: Kumite
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 03:18:56 PM »
the conversation came about because there was a feel that one had to pull back on the punches or the hit would hurt your partner. I remember talking with loydie about this , that gaining excessive distance would render you unable to put in a full punch and hence the pulling back of the punch, he told me if I remember,   that you gain the required distance so that your punch reaches your partner on full reach and also full power. I try and do this and also put my pelvis /hip area close to my partner instead of my head first which brings me to a lower stance when delivering the punch, I try and adjust my stance height depending how close I am, to get the neccesary contact. The better the partner the lower you go, but I try and finish with the back upright.I hope this makes sense.
Telling a man to go to hell and making him do it are two different propositions.

Offline JimmyTheHoover

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • I Used To Kick Like This :(
    • View Profile
    • Routertech - The Site For All  Things Networking
Re: Kumite
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 03:38:21 PM »
the conversation came about because there was a feel that one had to pull back on the punches or the hit would hurt your partner. I remember talking with loydie about this , that gaining excessive distance would render you unable to put in a full punch and hence the pulling back of the punch, he told me if I remember,   that you gain the required distance so that your punch reaches your partner on full reach and also full power. I try and do this and also put my pelvis /hip area close to my partner instead of my head first which brings me to a lower stance when delivering the punch, I try and adjust my stance height depending how close I am, to get the neccesary contact. The better the partner the lower you go, but I try and finish with the back upright.I hope this makes sense.

It makes perfect sense B&D (can't rememeber your real name - sorry ?Keith? perhaps?)

Sorry guys - have I totally misread the first post and gone into all that detail unnecessarily  :oops:

I thought the issue was with blocking and not punching....  :(

You are correct in not leaning in towards your opponent to make distance (unless you like geting punched in the head  :D) - regarding "correct distance" I would disagree slightly in as much as I feel that you should never be "quite" at full extension unless you actually mean to do serious damage.

I prefer to have just a little left (could be in hip rotation as opposed to arm length of course) to go through the target wall if necessary. I agree that it's a bad habit to get into "pulling" the punches "too early" but that's not what I'm talking about - it's more a "fullpower and focus" while dilivering the punch and stopping it as you make contact......

Like a lot of aspects of karate it's a matter of "control" - I tend to practice the "full power lockout for an instant" techniques against the air or a bag.

Jim
The Longest Journey Begins With A Single Stumble..... ;)

RouterTech.org - The Site for all things Networking !

Spam this e-mail address - we need spam for research:  givemespam99@yahoo.co.uk

Offline B&D

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Fast is good but accurate is better.
    • View Profile
Re: Kumite
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 03:49:03 PM »
The name is Arwel. I'm afraid I don't do full power practice with only the bag, I try and give it everything with any partner, the problem is i'm so unfit that my full power only lasts 2 decent partners if i'm lucky after that its as if i'm in reverse, but one of the best advice i've had was from Dave J - don't think about someone in front of you, just carry on as though your still doing kihon basics, your techniques look much better. Since we are  talking basic kumite it seems to work.
Telling a man to go to hell and making him do it are two different propositions.

Offline JimmyTheHoover

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • I Used To Kick Like This :(
    • View Profile
    • Routertech - The Site For All  Things Networking
Re: Kumite
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 04:15:41 PM »
Hi Arwel - I knew that was your name - just forgot it  :) ...mind you if I had the same name as Azzy I wouldn't publicise it either  :D

Yep - real partner should be treated the same as the "visualised" partner who's in front of you in Kihon Practice - you do always have a "virtual" partner in front of you don't you ?  :wink:

Nice to meet someone who's as unfit as me at last  :lol: - I suspect that - like me - you tense up too much which wastes a lot of energy and slows you down.

Jim
The Longest Journey Begins With A Single Stumble..... ;)

RouterTech.org - The Site for all things Networking !

Spam this e-mail address - we need spam for research:  givemespam99@yahoo.co.uk

Offline B&D

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Fast is good but accurate is better.
    • View Profile
Re: Kumite
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 04:18:49 PM »
I suspect that - like me - you tense up too much which wastes a lot of energy and slows you down.

Jim

[/quote]
Don't I know it :evil: #-o
Telling a man to go to hell and making him do it are two different propositions.

Offline JimmyTheHoover

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • I Used To Kick Like This :(
    • View Profile
    • Routertech - The Site For All  Things Networking
Re: Kumite
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 04:25:50 PM »
Quote
I suspect that - like me - you tense up too much which wastes a lot of energy and slows you down.

Jim

Don't I know it :evil: #-o

It can on occasion be useful  - during a heavy training sesson you can sometimes get really tired and this forces "inadvertant relaxation" and sometimes you can find yourself actually reacting and performing techniques much more effectively and can be surprised by the effcet they have on your partner when you thought you'd hardly touched them....

...silver linings eh ? - que Monty Python - "Always Look on the bright side of life........."

Jim
The Longest Journey Begins With A Single Stumble..... ;)

RouterTech.org - The Site for all things Networking !

Spam this e-mail address - we need spam for research:  givemespam99@yahoo.co.uk

Offline Andyeilio

  • Shogun
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,114
    • View Profile
Re: Kumite
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 06:49:02 PM »
Hi Guys,

Jimmy, the detail was necessary, and spot on, looking at the post (hastily written during lunchtime) I was not clear in that I am referring to blocks in the first paragraph, and punching techniques in the second paragraph.

The advice ref blocking technique and distancing applies to both I guess, correct distancing, power.............and practise, practise, practise.

I want to be effective, without causing unecessary pain/injury with the Soto uke's and more efficient with my punching................
Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all