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Author Topic: Sweeping - a loss of control ?  (Read 1332 times)

Offline Huw

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« on: October 14, 2003, 09:06:25 PM »
If you injure an opponent in a kumite bout using a punch or kick you'd be warned for a lack of control or in a comp disqualified. If you sweep an opponent - which carries a significant risk of injury to the victim - it's ok.  Plenty of techniques have been banned from kumite for being too dangerous - should sweeping be added to the list ?

What are the general views on this ?
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Offline Lloydie

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2003, 02:09:02 PM »
Interesting one this.  Firstly, as I understand it, the kicks and punches that score in competition, do not have to land, ie contact does not have to be made.  However, in using a sweep, to be effective it MUST contact with the opponents leg.  The result of the contact could be several things.  1) The contact is ill-timed/poorly targeted and injury occurs from the delivery of the technique itself, or 2) the technique is successful and the opponent falls to the floor.  The latter could result in injury dependant on how the opponent falls.  However, most clubs teach very little in the way of "breakfalls" so the risk is probably increased.  Having said that, it is karate we are doing, and we have all signed a form to acknowledge that karate carries a risk of injury.  I would have thought the risk from being swept and falling is not really greater than other sports where contact is made.  I don't believe the technique is dangerous, full contact would be far more dangerous, or targeting of vital areas.  I'd like to see it kept in, as further attempts to "make it safe" seem to me to be self-defeating.


lloydie
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Offline Mole Bach

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2003, 07:32:48 PM »
Sweeping your opponent takes a lot of skill, that is why a lot of the times, the "sweep" is more like a kick to the shin or knee.

For it (a sweep) to score in a competition, it must either be through the awarding of a 'tento' (fall), followed by either a 'wazari' (point) or 'jogai' (out of area); or it must be followed directly with a strike ie before the opponent hits the floor, you must hit them.

There are also many ways in which to sweep your opponent, all depending on tac-tics/follow up/distance etc. etc.

Tell you what, we'll spend some time on it following the grading (just gently). :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:
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Offline Moley

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2003, 09:34:41 PM »
There is a discussion going on in the Tora Kai Forum about control. Susan mentions an episode between Sensei Shirai and an over enthusiastic "foreign" student. who actually punches sensei Shirai "full force" on a counter..NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE...
Along with Sensei Shirai, I too have been "most fortunate" and had the opportunity to train against our foreign friend.
It was two years ago at the Edinburgh course. Kawasoe Sensei demonstrated a Jodan Mawashi-geri whereby the foot passed behind the back of the opponents neck. The kick was performed slowly and with "Maximum Control" no contact was to be made due to the dangers involved with this Kick as contact to the side of the neck would be made with the shin.
I turned around and faced my partner for this excercise and found myself facing "our friend". After a couple of goes, he got a bit bored and told me to raise my bent arm to my left ear (elbow upwards) to protect my neck. He said "THISS ISS HOW VE DO IT IN MY CONTRY" He then proceeded to kick the hell to my bent arm . Now he was really walloping FULL POWER ! (All my club mates who saw the state of my arm for the rest of that week will verify this...My arm was BLACK with several large bruises)
Whilst he was systematically kicking me to bits, Kawasoe Sensei passed by. "Thank God " I thought "Now he's in for it..Kawi will really tell him off"  Sensei saw what he was doing, saw the look on my face and started to giggle.."Ahh Gwyn San..you got Vla####ar Ha Ha "  Then he walked off and left us alone!
I was hurting, ..But then it was MY TURN. O.K. I admit I wanted revenge..But mostly I wanted this guy to leave me alone and not come near me EVER AGAIN ! Those of you who know who I'm talking about know that although awesome, he's also quite slightly built. So I suggested he also place his bent arm over his left ear "LIKE ZEY DOO IN YOOOUR CONTRY" and then I proceeded to knock the hell out of his arm with a Mawashi Geri using the shin. Now I'm not small and I may not be very good, but I can do real damage to a sitting duck. He was being knocked to the ground at times. Sensei couldn't do anything, he was laughing too much. At the end of that session I was more annoyed than satisfied. I had come to the Edinburgh course for my HOLIDAY, if my arm was damaged, I might miss training ! Anyway I had made d**n sure he would not come near me again !
The following day in Kawasoe Sensei's lesson, I turned around to face my partner......
...It was HIM AGAIN !
He grinned and said..
"I LIKE YOU..YOU HIT ME VERRY GOOD..VE TRAIN TOGEZZER NOW"
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Offline Azzy_Stealth

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2003, 09:47:19 PM »
Yep. I'll verify the very large bruise.

After his hard session with his New Friend.. :roll:  
We walked back to the lounge and Gwyn asked if we saw what happened to him during his training.

He showed us his bruise and proceded to demonstrate on an unsuspecting member of the seki seven. ME.... :?

Needless to say he was a little angry and I ended up the other end of a mawashi geri. Controlled? Possably but I still ended up on the floor. Aww

Thanks for the chat in the lounge after your training that day Moley.
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Offline Lloydie

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2003, 11:05:49 PM »
Yep, I remember it well, Moley came along to the MASH HQ and showed us the bruises  :shock:  :shock:  
Next day up popped "The Impaler" behind Moley again, as I recall it was 'cos no-one else would train with him!  He did go back to the motherland with great respect for the Seki club though.

lloydie
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Offline Mole Bach

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2003, 01:49:58 AM »
Moley,

I think that you should face yourself for once.  My God, what??!!!, you were hurt last night!!!, MY B***** ARM is killing me after you blocked soto-uke.

So far today, I've dropped three patients, two old ladies and a partridge in a pear tree (hang on, talked to Wes again, SORRY).  

Moley, in the immortal words of Eryl "what's he had for tea?" (loosly translated as "he's probably on some sort of semi-illegal substance or other, or some prescribed medication for some underlying medical condition"), STOP TRYING TO BREAK MY B***** ARM OR ELSE
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Offline Moley

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2004, 12:59:17 PM »
Saw another Seki guest earning his "wings" last night.
Not as spectacular a "Fly By" as we saw demonstrated by the visitor who was later named "Biggles", but quite impressive nonetheless.
Now I missed most of the action as I was concentrating on my opponent, so what really happened?

(P.S.  Jonathan, if you're reading this , don't worry, IMHO He must LIKE you........Otherwise your flight would've been a "Long Haul" one. :lol:
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Offline dogberry

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Sweeping - a loss of control ?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2004, 10:46:14 PM »
An interesting session to say the least............watching jonathan experience flight by way of GIZMO AIRLINES made me whince yet reflecting on the fact that the movement was so quick,fluid and effective  made me realise.....theres a long long way to go...........JONATHAN got up and carried on.......SPIRIT........ I would imagine many would have been winded into submission with that type of fall..........

Its given me a lot of food for thought....SWEEPING....can we practice this move in the dojo.....I cant see LYNNE being a willing  helper somehow :shock:
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