Poll

hard wired or hard learnt?

hard wired
2 (50%)
hard learnt
2 (50%)
hard luck lloydie, for getting Moley in "madness mode"
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: November 08, 2003, 07:03:12 PM

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Author Topic: "hard wired" or "Learned behaviour"  (Read 1449 times)

Offline Lloydie

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"hard wired" or "Learned behaviour"
« on: November 08, 2003, 07:03:12 PM »
Interesting bit of nan-demo sanbon with Moley on Thursday.  Moley was very keyed into not hitting me on the left side chudan, 'cos he knew I was carrying an injury.  However, when the opportunity presented itself he took it.  
Got me wondering, although Moley was thinking to avoid a particular target, when the target presented itself he did took it automatically.

So, to broaden it out a little, is this [seeing a target/opportunity and going for it] "instinct" ie something that is within us, or is it something we learn from the practice of karate?

lloydie
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2003, 10:36:48 PM »
To begin with I was thinking of not hitting it (Lloydie's broken rib)
I didn't think about hitting it until after I hit it..
Confused ?

I am !

Anyway Lloydie..Don't make me out to be the bad Guy ! I told you to sit the next one out against Mole bach..but would you do it ? Would you hell !
anyway I saw you "Ride"(As in riding a punch) a potentially lethal Ushiro-Geri delivered by Mole bach with  absolutely no control whatsoever !
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Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2003, 12:39:01 AM »
Moley wrote:
Quote
I didn't think about hitting it until after I hit it..

Yeah, It's this bit that interests me.  When you hit me it was clear, crisp and controlled, no damage, but I know that you did not want to hit me there when we started off.  Somewhere in the kumite (and I agree about the "riding the kick" with Mole Bach, although I thought it was controlled  :shock: ) we lost the plot and "somesing" took over.
 I have a view that it was "automatic mode" ie see it - hit it.  Now, this seems to be in us - but how did it get there?

lloydie
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Offline Mole Bach

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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2003, 03:49:54 PM »
Quote from: Moley
a potentially lethal Ushiro-Geri delivered by Mole bach with  absolutely no control whatsoever !


Moley,
I object to this statement; at no time was Lloydie's injury in any danger of becoming permenent.  As you know Moley, the mentality is
Quote from: Moley
a pack of dogs going for the weakest/injured
:twisted:

Besides, I've got the best record for control in the club. :^o

As for the question which Lloydie asked, I personally believe that you learn to see/hit a target, this is why we do so much kihon kumite.  

Although you are countering with a set technique, a target must be obtainable and delivery of technique must be on target with good distance.
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Offline Moley

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"hard wired" or "Learned behaviour"
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2003, 10:48:05 PM »
Quote from: dave
Somewhere in the kumite we lost the plot and "somesing" took over.
 I have a view that it was "automatic mode" ie see it - hit it.  Now, this seems to be in us - but how did it get there?

lloydie


Yep..That's it..Tried it again tonight with Lloydie. Up to the Hajime point I could think clearly ! I thought..Poor old LLoydie with his bust ribs. No go area that.
After hajime ! it was let the body take over. Hit first if you can, if he moves first counter !
Then afterwards, "Oh sh#t Sorry Lloydie..didn't mean that.
Weird !

Noticed the big bird flew off early..wasn't feeling too good at the beginning either..hope he's O.K.
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Offline Lloydie

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"hard wired" or "Learned behaviour"
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2003, 02:10:23 PM »
I was rather impressed with your Ali impersonation at the end of our nan demo sanbon kumite  :shock:  :shock:

Complete with "Ali Shuffle" at the end !!

Lloydie

"If ya ain't much fun you'll go down in 1"
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2003, 10:00:51 PM »
Quote from: dave
I was rather impressed with your Ali impersonation at the end of our nan demo sanbon kumite  :shock:  :shock:

Complete with "Ali Shuffle" at the end !!

Lloydie

"If ya ain't much fun you'll go down in 1"


Years of practice Lloydie.. I like my nose as it is ..so I learned to backtrack PDQ  Ali fashion.
Actually it's interesting how many of us "Oldies" came to Karate from a Boxing background. Gizmo was a very gifted boxer and I was always taught by my dad that.."Boxing will make a man out of you"
He set up a Gym for us in the garage and Tommy Farr was "GOD"
We even listened to boxing matches..ON THE RADIO ???
I can still hear my old dad now..
"Shut up ! I'm listening to the boxing" !
Amazing..
Any more comments on the REAL old time boxing..
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Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline Huw

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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2003, 10:39:16 PM »
Quote from: Moley
"Shut up ! I'm listening to the boxing" !
Amazing...


I remember listening to boxing on the radio ... Johnny Owen's fights from the late seventies, early eighties were on Radio Cymru. Bloody good they where as well. God that makes me feel old.

We had a few boxing lessons in David Hughes School. I bet they don't do that these days !!
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2003, 11:10:07 PM »
Quote
Any more comments on the REAL old time boxing..
I sat up at 2:00 am to listen to Frank Bruno's 1st fight againt Tyson on the radio.  This would be in the late 80's? Still, it brought back the magic of listening to fights on the radio of earlier years.  Remember Liston/Ali 1 & 2 ?

Visually: The Ali/Foreman fight was the best I have ever seen.  The sheer excitement, coupled with the dread that my hero Ali was going to get slaughtered by the big hitter, who had just demolished Frasier in 2 rounds........and then came the ultimate "rope-a-dope".  Great stuff, that will live with me forever.



Lloydie
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Offline Azzy_Stealth

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"hard wired" or "Learned behaviour"
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2003, 01:11:02 PM »
Quote from: Huw

We had a few boxing lessons in David Hughes School. I bet they don't do that these days !!


Well they didnt when I was in YDH. The only fight I had in school was more of a bar brawl mixed with some WWE moves.

What can I say I watched too much Hulk Hogan in my early days. I coppied his headbutt move and floored the lad.  :twisted:

AND you think I have NO AGGGGggresion
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Offline dogberry

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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2003, 09:37:06 PM »
johnny owen and alan minter were a couple of boxers I used to admire when I was younger.............when my mum re married my step dad was a boxing fanatic and we too used to listen to the radio and if there was boxing on the telly then it was a big night :D

my mum used to get so exited that she would start throwing punches at the telly and scream her head off.......I never used to answer her back :shock:

I was well impressed with a recent bout I watched on tv whereby some brit (i forget his name ) was defending his commonwealth title against a very fit,strong long reaching individual......within 13 seconds the brit had a horrendous cut to his left eyelid and was pouring with blood.....the commentators wrote him off due to the severity of the cut.

The 'cuts man' managed to clean him up and stem the blood flow round after round   and eventually he won on points....hows about that for stamina and determination......... he must have lost not far off a pint of blood during that fight....he'll probably suffer for the rest of his career with the cut/scar just like MINTER used to :cry:

LLoydie we'll have to train up a 'cuts man' or ' cuts woman' for next years championships with a speciality in re-racking ribs :D
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Offline Lloydie

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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2003, 10:01:34 PM »
Dogberry wrote:
Quote
LLoydie we'll have to train up a 'cuts man' or ' cuts woman' for next years championships with a speciality in re-racking ribs
Yes...Orion was very unhelpful with his "I'm sorry old chap, I just don't do anything above the knee!!"  :twisted:  :twisted:

 Anyway , back to the thread.  
Who remembers "Sugar" Ray Leonard?  Pound-for-pound one of the most accomplished boxers I have ever seen. (Ali still comes first) Talking of which...have you seen the "when we were kings" film?
Lloydie
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