ITKF / JKA Technicalities

[Dave J]

Here's another dog walking inspired question .....

Following the Edinburgh camp 2010 many people it were suggesting that Sensei Kawasoe and Naito (I dunno about Kamino as I havent trained with him before ) have slightly altered certain technical points in order to bring us more in line with JKA techniques. Did this really happen ? Was it always like that and we just didn't understand before ? Is it that we have been prepared over the last few years for this new phase in our technical development ?

What changes did you notice and is it for better or a step back in time we could do without ??

Discuss .....
     

[Moley]

I have touched upon this on another forum. Here's an adaptation of what I think.
I did notice that Naito had changed his teaching to a more JKA type approach, but this was what we (Seki) are used to anyway as we always tend to train  (or attempt to train) in a JKA style. It may have been more apparent to the others on the course (Scots/English) that Naito has changed as I don't think they ever did JKA type training. As for Kamino ? I don't know as it was the first time I have trained under him.
Now about Kawasoe Sensei. It was because of the JKA type of training which we always loved that we originally went with Kawasoe sensei to begin with circa 1987.
Although I still love JKA type fluidity and transition of movement Jiku ashi etc etc and have followed that way since. I truly believe that Kawasoe sensei has evolved and changed the JKA way of training for the better. Although still the JKA way superficially, he has IMHO developed a Kawasoe emphasis on power generation and speed using the body dynamics and his innate ability. In short, I think he is teaching "his" interpretation of JKA karate using what worked well for him and also what he learned from Kase sensei, Nishiyama Sensei and Shirai Sensei. But of course he will have to bring the others (Scots/English) over to a more JKA standardised way especially in kata, but the transition will be easy for us (Welsh) if we need to change at all.

[Huw]

What changes did you notice and is it for better or a step back in time we could do without ??
     

The biggest change I noticed was in Sensei Naito's teaching of Heian Godan. The end sequence was different from what I'd previously been taught. For the better? I think so. Whilst being a little more difficult to perform it was a more natural transition.

[JimmyTheHoover]

What changes did you notice and is it for better or a step back in time we could do without ??
      

The biggest change I noticed was in Sensei Naito's teaching of Heian Godan. The end sequence was different from what I'd previously been taught. For the better? I think so. Whilst being a little more difficult to perform it was a more natural transition.

How was it different Huw - we didn't get that - and had Naito taught you this before then ?

Jim

[Huw]

I'm really not sure how to tell you Jim!! Think of the end sequence of Godan - from Moroto-Uke in front stance you'd turn behind, 'grab and pull' back up into backstance. The front foot then comes back into a standing 'mange-uke' (??? wrong name). Previously you'd then turn into the same stance facing the other way and 'grab-and-pull' again.

Not so this time. This time you'd drop your stance lower, bring the right arm forward to a high shuto-uke whilst your left hand comes back to your temple before stepping forward into the 'grab-and-pull' technique. Reallt good to be honest and a much more natural transition than the first version.

BTW please don't tell me 'that's the way we teach it in Torra Kai' 'cos everyone (Norwegian, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Martian) looked a little bewildered        Naito also looked very pleased with himself

[JimmyTheHoover]

Hmmm......

No I can with confidence say that it's NEVER been taught that way in Tora-Kai - at least as I interpret your description...... when you say "shuto" do you just mean the "sort of"  "shuto nagashi-uke" action used to block/deflect the incoming jodan punch (see JKA Blue Vid link below) or is it a radically different motion/action  ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td2wuMoNe8

JIm

[Lloydie]

or as Sensei does it Heian Godan

[JimmyTheHoover]

or as Sensei does it Heian Godan

Yeah - I found that one as well Dave - as it's the one on Sensei's DVD set that i have - but referenced the "Blu" one as it's the "JKA Way" - but they are basically the same (not surprising IMO) for that sequence anyway 

Jim

[Huw]

Sensei Naito's version was more pronounced that either of these. But more to the point it's not the way it's generally taught in clubs. Certainly the three Seki guys who performed Heian Godan in competition and demonstrations did it the way I described first, also IIRC Dave J the week before last in training. The point is that this seems to have been 'under the radar' for years.

[JimmyTheHoover]

Don't think I'd read too much into that TBH - Naito was indeed "pushing" some changes in Kihon during some of our sessions as was Sensei Camino but IMO Sensei Kawasoe went right back to "contradicting" some of it in his sessions - e.g. "JKA Straight Back Leg" - lets give it some time and see what happens during Sensei's training sessions 

JIm