Topic: Too much kihon

[Huw]

I understand the point of drilling kihon - when the going gets tough we can fall back on solid, basic techniques when we know backwards. But is there such a thing as doing too much kihon ?

Mole Bach recently had us doing techniques with our back heels off the floor - speaking personally this completely threw me and it took ages to mentally adjust to the fact that this is what was required. The reason for the difficulty of course is that we're drilled so much with kihon - with our heels firmly on terra firma !! Does drilling so much kihon actually close our minds ??

[Jewels]

But why would we need an open mind Huw?  why would we need a mind at all? is there anything to suggest that people with minds can do better at karate then those of us who aernt very busy upstairs  seems to me it serves only to talk about karate in a clever way.  Maybe it depends on the mind though.. mine does better the more tired i get, and then i think it takes 2nd place to my subconcuoise and focus..if i've got any going on, and then if i'm really lucky i just get an empty space of infinity where the tangled mess of my mind was  

[Moley]

Too much kihon ?
Too Much Kihon ???
Some years ago, Leigh Smith (Saxon) arranged a "Grand Slam" tournament in Rochdale. Each branch of the UKTKF was to field one team.
Wales fielded a totally "SEKI" team that had NEVER done any Juy Kumite as such before. All they had done was Kihon kihon and kihon.
They faced Kawasoe Sensei's team led by Jimmy Liang and a Scottish team compromising of Colin, Alan, Martin and Graham...
Not one to boast..I think Seki did RATHER WELL !

Anyway...what about that "PIODEN" guy who won last UKTKF Kumite champs..I don't think he had done ANYTHING BUT KIHON !..Or has he forgotten ?

                                 

[Azzy_Stealth]

What I think Moley is trying to say in his rather unique style is:

[Kihon is the basis for not only good karate but the best karate.]

The perfect example Kawasoe Sensei.  

We all fall back on the things we know & feel are natural while under pressure-grading, kumite etc. If we only do mediocre Kihon, how can we expect to be able execute techniques correctly to generate the power the technique can yield.

I love Kihon, it gives me time to practice individual parts of a technique to try and correct it and improve. Maybe thats why my kumite skills are lacking. I dont think im ready to move on to concentrate on multiple techniques used successively.
 
Too Much Kihon ??? Only babies whine under pressure!    


p.s.
Or maybe he’s saying

[Huw]

Did anybody read what I said ??? Well, did ya punk ?

I didn't say that kihon isn't important - I still train 7-8 Monday, Wednesday and Thursday BECAUSE I think kihon is VERY important. Yes Moley, I went to Blackpool with nothing but kihon and a small pot of TigerBalm.

The question is does drilling kihon harm our ability to do 'different' things - like Alun's heel up stuff ? And if it affects that ability - does it actually mater ??

[Azzy_Stealth]

I think I have answered the question correctly for all, with my views.

I didnt point any fingers.. make any wild accusations. I only gave my view.  

[Jewels]

Huw...your not supposed to have your heel up duh! that was the whole point...so how can that matter? that tiger balm has definately done something to you head (you'd never have got through that comp withou t it)

[Azzy_Stealth]

Thanks Jewels..
You've made my point. The power of the Giakuzuki was generated from the heels contact with the floor. Good Kihon & alot of good kihon.. lets you feel and develop the correct technique. "affects that ability " not affect but improve that ability.

It was weird to see that session from the bench for once.  I could see how many actually stand out from the crowd with poor effort and technique. As Moley its obvious who is coasting.

[Lloydie]

Maybe thats why my kumite skills are lacking. I dont think im ready to move on to concentrate on multiple techniques used successively.

I am not too sure that you're kumite skills are all that lacking Azzy.  I have observed your kihon technique (far better than mine) and I think it stood you in good stead in the Kata finals.  I think these good kihon basics will also do the same for you in kumite.  

lloydie

[Moley]

Bit worried folks..please help !
I always thought that the
 "TAKUSHOKU STANDARD LESSON"
improved Kihon techniques because (In my opinion I thought) that when you are well and truly knackered, your body (and SPIRIT) fight on and because you are so knackered the body has no room for mistakes or unnecessary movements/actions. Hence your body adapts to pure perfect natural kihon.
Recently I was told that because students don't know "how much kihon they will have to do" and don't know when it will end...that they
"save themselves" and "coast"..and hence do not give every technique 100%
If this is so...
... then the lesson is CRAP !


HELP !

[Mole Bach]

Recently I was told that because students don't know "how much kihon they will have to do" and don't know when it will end...that they
"save themselves" and "coast"..and hence do not give every technique 100%

Moley,

Who is the culprit?

I understand both ways of thinking here, but tend to agree with you Moley; some students are frightened that if they don't conserve their energy at the begining of the lesson during Kihon, that they will be unable to carry on during the kumite, and probably get 'knocked around a bit'.

The Takushoku training method has indeed produced some of the best JKA instructors in the world, and we at Seki have had the privallage of getting an insight into it from an ex-Takushoku student (Hooper Sempai).

The names of ex-Takushoku students reads like the 'who's who' of the Karate world, people like Nakayama, Nishiama, Sugiura, Okasaki, Enoeda, Kawasoe, Osaka, Omura, Akita etc. etc. etc. so I don't think that there is anything wrong with the training method.

I think that what we should do is adopt another Taku-dai strategy to 'encourage' students to try harder and not coast, what about the one that Matsumi sensei used on Akita? or the one where 'light' Kumite is practiced before and after training (I think that this would do Gizmo a world of good).

Something to look forward to in the new year

[dogberry]

Anyway...what about that "PIODEN" guy who won last UKTKF Kumite champs..I don't think he had done ANYTHING BUT KIHON !..Or has he forgotten ?

                                 

I remember I was watching HUWS first round and thereafter every round.......nothing but basics.....nothing fancy......basics.......well done huw........keep it simple......YOU DID VERY WELL.....YOU DESRVED IT....

[Susan]

You have to remember that when you enter UKTKF competition you're up against people that, like you, do mostly basics training and very little freestyle practice.

Several years ago there used to be regular all-styles competitions held near us. A lot of STKF people used to enter, but I don't think anyone ever got past the first round. They were up against people that did nothing but freestyle practice and, concequently, they were much better at it.

People tended to specialise - it was rare for someone to do well in both kata and kumite.

We used to console ourselves by telling each other that these guys had weak technique etc, but it simply wasn't true. It was pretty rough, with broken bones and lost teath common in both men and womens fights!

I think to be a good fighter you need to fight. If fighting is what you enjoy then extra kumite practice can only help. If fighting is all you're interested in then you probably shouldn't be doing Shotokan.

[Huw]

I think to be a good fighter you need to fight. If fighting is what you enjoy then extra kumite practice can only help. If fighting is all you're interested in then you probably shouldn't be doing Shotokan.

Agreed about the fighting bit. I also tend to think that if competitions are important to you then Shotokan is the wrong style.

I very much enjoyed the whole experience of Blackpool, I did more learning in one day than even Edinburgh Summer Camp. I'll be back next year, but I'm also pretty glad it's only an annual event.

[Moley]

Cue:
Rocky music