Topic: Too much kihon

[Susan]

Rocky????

...I'll be back...

...don't you mean the terminator  

[Moley]

               

[siwan]

I think to be a good fighter you need to fight. If fighting is what you enjoy then extra kumite practice can only help.
I agree with what Susan said above.Extra kumite practice can only help! There is a big step between  kihon ippon kumite and free fighting and I've seen a lot of students going for shodan and having to do kumite with no idea what to do. I think that drills such as nan demo sanbon (probably spelt it incorrect) which are a little bit more unpredictable and other similar drills are important in the development of free fighting.Of course you cant execute a good technique in kumite without plenty of kihon practice, which is always the most important element of training. But the more practice you have the better you will become              

[Susan]

What is nandemo sanbon (I've quite possibly done it but don't know the name )?

Gwyn mentioned you and he practicing this over on our forums.

[iac]

Kihon means Basic.  We all learn Kihon at the beggining of our training, but later the term basic changes and becomes more generalised.  Kumite  means fighting, but when we learn to fight we start off by using Kihon Kumite.  I am not talking about Sanbon, Gohon or Ippon I am talking about (Forgive the spelling) Sugi-ashi Gyaku-zuki, Yori-ashi Kizame-zuki etc these techniques are Basic Kumite.  Style is not really important as drills like this can be incorporated into a basic class.
I have recently changed my teaching strategy because I felt there was no classes dedicated to Jyu-Kumite.  Over the years it has all been solid basic as in gyaku-zuki, oi-zuki etc, (different instructors teach different ways but overall this is what we been shown to teach, though more experienced instructors will have various views).  At the Edinburgh course last year Sensei Tsyama killed us with his classes, so you could imagine what the instructors classes must have been like. It was a huge change from what we have been doing and teaching previously.  The London course, I think, has been the hardest yet in terms of basic training - all the Sensei were on the basic theme using more hip direction, pressure pusing down and forward with the hips (I felt the pain across my lower back and abdomen), Kumite follows on from that kind of training because it builds up speed and incorporating full use of the body action, movement and balance.
So Kihon is important for Kumite both must be practised togther.

[Huw]

What is nandemo sanbon.

Three attacks.

1 - a punch to the head. Any punch, any hand.

2 - a punch to the stomach. Any punch, any hand.

3 -  a kick. Any kick. Attacker nominates jodan or chudan.

All attacks start from three meters apart. Very simple but very effective training - especially for the defender who has to try and anticipate the attack.

[Susan]

Thanks Huw. I've never heard the name and never tried it, although I suppose i've done variations.

Paul & I have been meeting up with some SKIF (Kanazawa) guys recently for a bit of extra practice. It's informal - not a class, we just train together, but we do their style of karate.

It's Shotokan, but there are some significant differences. There is more emphasis on circular movements, controlling your opponents enter of gravity, etc. Closer to bunkai type movements. The semi-free kumite that they do for gradings is very different too, and a much better progression towards free style. In fact, quite possibly a better progression towards self-defence style kumite too.

Each attack is done 5 times (5 oi-zuki jodan, 5 oi-zuki chudan, 5 mai-geri, 5 yoko-geri, 5 mawashi-geri and 5 ushiro-geri). There are 5 different defences for each attack. Starting with our basic defences (but with a little more body use/mowement), and building up to some quite complex defences with much more emphasis on evasion or controlling the opponent rather than simply blocking and striking.

It's great practice for us as it builds upon the basics practice that we've done for years. I think the downside to their approach for beginners is that there is less time to focus on the simple stuff. I think their body movement is better (although hard to say for sure because they've practiced these combinations a lot - we haven't), but they lack speed and power and their individual techniques are less polished than typical ITKF people. Although I have to admit their goals do seem to be different from ours. For instance, speed isn't so important - there is more emphasis on moving with your opponent.

In summary, I would say ITKF basics isn't enough if you want to be good at anything other than ITKF basics. But if you've only got time to train 3 or 4 times a week, then focusing on the ITKF grading syllabus is a good use of that limited time.

I don't think Kawasoe (or anyone else) has ever said that all you need is basics - just that until our basics are half decent it's a waste of time doing anything else. And he's got a point.

[Susan]

And I agree 100% with iac about Tsyama's classes.

[Lloydie]

Each attack is done 5 times (5 oi-zuki jodan, 5 oi-zuki chudan, 5 mai-geri, 5 yoko-geri, 5 mawashi-geri and 5 ushiro-geri). There are 5 different defences for each attack. Starting with our basic defences (but with a little more body use/mowement), and building up to some quite complex defences with much more emphasis on evasion or controlling the opponent rather than simply blocking and striking.

 Hi Susan, out of interest could you specify the particular defences for these attacks, especially the more complex ones?

ta

lloydie

[Susan]

You'll need to give me a bit of time    

I don't know them all, and those I do know will be tricky to describe.....I'll do my best though. I'll post them up later.

[Susan]

OK, here's some to try...


The first defence is always the same as ours.

Here's some of the others that I remember. There isn't really a block with any of these defences:

Oi-zuki Chudan Attack
******************

Assuming you're starting with your left leg forward...

Shift your left leg forward and outwards, and at the same time, rotate your hips clockwise (rotating your body 90 degrees to the right) as you strike with gyaku-zuki. Don't evade then counter; It's a simultaneous action. When you finish, the opposite leg is forward, and you are at 90 degrees to your opponent. It's VERY difficult to get the distance right!

To get the timing, first let your opponent hit you, but rotate your hips sharply upon impact (as if you were blocking) so that the punch is deflected off your stomach. Once you have a feel for that, try using the punch touching your stomach as a trigger - as soon as you feel it brush against you, fire yourself round and into gyaku-zuki.

Obviously the aim is to move fractionally before the punch lands so that your opponent can't adapt.

Yoko Geri Attack
**************

Assuming you're starting with your left leg forward. Opponent is kicking right leg yoko-geri...

Pivot 180 degrees clockwise on your leading leg, and strike empi to your opponents head. (When you finish, your right leg is forward, and you're beside your opponent). As you pivot, 'attack' the hip of their kicking leg with your right hip. To do this, you need to think of driving forward as you pivot. Regardless of what stage their kick is at this will throw them off balance - they won't know what's hit them!

Mawashi Geri Attack
****************

Assuming you're starting with your left leg forward. Opponent is kicking right leg mawashi-geri...

As soon as they move,  attack with stepping gyaku-zuki jodan (Your left arm is now protecting the left side of your face). Your right leg is now leading - pivot sharply, striking the collar bone with the heel of your right hand. (You're now at 90 degrees to your opponent)