uchi uke

[Lloydie]

Uchi uke - how effective a technique is this?

definition of effective:  Accomplishes what you want it to do consistently

answers only from kyu grades please

lloydie

[Mole Bach]

answers only from kyu grades please

   

[Huw]

I've never really got it to work. Y'know - work meaning being able to block a half decent punch with it ...

[Mole Bach]

I've never really got it to work. Y'know - work meaning being able to block a half decent punch with it ...

Lloydie,

I'm sooo tempted.........

[Lloydie]

Lloydie,

I'm sooo tempted.........

Ahh OK then - open to everyone    

lloydie

[Moley]

Hint :

"MOVE"
"BODY ANGLES"

Contact on inside or outside of attacking arm.
Effective = Contact on outside of elbow..(Do this to me or Eryl and we'll get our own back !

Please carry on..

[JimmyTheHoover]

Hint :

"MOVE"
"BODY ANGLES"

Contact on inside or outside of attacking arm.
Effective = Contact on outside of elbow..(Do this to me or Eryl and we'll get our own back !

Please carry on..

Translation (Scottish) Move Tae the side - fer Chrisssakes - an' block  

JTH

P.S. Yep its the only way it works for me as well    same with Shuto-Uke  

[GuyB]

Someone more in the know could maybe throw some light on this, but I read somewhere recently that the term 'uke' doesn't in fact translate directly to the english 'block' as we understand it. The word 'response' was suggested as a more accurate translation.

This would certainly agree with what people seem to be hinting at when they say that most of the blocks in karate can be used as self contained , close in block/strike combos. I guess this is probably true of 'uchi uke' as well - apart from its application to prevent a sparring opponent 'tracking' your movement when you sabaki.

Exactly how uchi uke could be used effectively in a striking context is currently beyond my experience and ability. But, having thought about it some, the elbow would be the first striking surface when performed close in to an opponent, followed by the fist.. so maybe the 'blocking' movement of uchi-uke can be effectively used as some kind of double strike to the solar plexus and neck/throat area? Or would the angle of the arm be too shallow for this to work?

I'm probably barking well up the wrong tree here though..

Guy

[JimmyTheHoover]

GuyB,

Maybe it might help if you stop thinking about the secondary limb technique as being the blocking phase and also consider the role of the primary limb technique in perhaps setting up the follow up action block/strike for the secondary limb technigue  

For some examples (for any block - not just Uchi-Uke) get Moley or one of your instructors to demonstrate the possible application of the grading syllabus Kihon Blocking drills in which you move towards your imaginary opponent  

Cheers,

JTH

P.S. And they said I couldn't be cryptic or subtle eh  

[GuyB]

P.S. And they said I couldn't be cryptic or subtle eh  

Yeah, that was certainly cryptic...

Do you mean primary and secondary LIMBS or TECHNIQUES?

I guess by primary technique you might mean the sweep of the arm across the lower torso at the start of Uchi Uke - which could be a block, break-hold, or the hooking of a Mai-Geri (not recommended I know, but I've seen it done).  In the drill form, the 'blocking' hand goes all the way to the reverse hand, so its not inconceivable that this might perform as a means to trap the attacking limb in order to ensure accuracy of the follow up strike (the part of the technique normally used to 'block' in kihon) and maintain control of the opponent.

What you might mean by primary and secondary limbs is totally beyond me (I think evolution got rid of any secondary limbs I might have had a while back.. cocix notwithstanding).

Another possibility is to use the pull of the hikite hand to overbalance the opponent somehow over your extended front leg as the uke is concluded.. could be a nice little back breaker (ouch!) but probably wouldn't work if the opponent is in a proper stance. Although this is also my favourite interpretation of the turning Gedan Barai's in the first few katas - we might wake up some real demons if we start talking about throws in karate though.

Without trying this stuff out for yourself, you could analyse it all day really. Oh for a willing a malliable partner.. perhaps I should take a walk through Caernarfon tonight (I'm joking, of course.. I'm physically trying to get the basics down, but I cant stop thinking of those 'hidden' moves).

The more I look into karate.. the more it seems to be about the use of lethal force when unarmed (makes sense historically). There are a lot of people who think karate is a nice little sport thats ineffective for self defence... So damn effective they have to deliberately conceal a lot of it is probably closer to the mark.

Guy

[Huw]

Nice posting Guy.

Don't worry too much about secondary limbs - some of the Scots still have them. Something to do with slower evolution in a colder climate ... that's what Azzy said anyway.

I've always thought of moroto uke as being a throw ..... I guess there are many potential (practical) applications for many of the basic thechniques. In that respect are kihon basics anything more than guidelines about how to use the body properly in order to defend/attack ? Defend centre line, whole body action etc.

[GuyB]

Nice posting Guy.


I've always thought of moroto uke as being a throw .....

Another interesting karate technique that just doesn't seem very likely to work as advertised.. there must be something more to it.

When performed in front stance, MU feels more like a 'barge' to me, like you're meant to knock down doors with it or something. The movement of the arms seems almost inconsequential, other than to bring more wieght up front and help kime. The striking surface would seem to be the upper arm or shoulder. Close in, performing this would almost cetainly lead to the opponent staggering into a suitable distance for a damn good kicking

In other instances (and I'm thinking of early kata here - the only ones I know), its done in back stance.. where the character of the move seems to change completely. Its more controlled and does indeed feel as though it could be a throw, particularly as its often performed while turning.

As you say.. maybe its just an archetypal movement that has numerous applications depending on stance, position, distance etc.  

PS.. nice Tekki kata last night BTW - I love watching that kata, its so fluid, but I don't ever think I'll be able to actually do it.. it aint no Heihan nidan..

[GuyB]

Heres a little experiment I HAVE tried out (albeit slowly, cos it was with the missus and I didn't want to cause trouble).

Stand normally opposite your oponent and get them to grab your lapel naturally with thier right hand.

Grab their wrist with your right hand (in a wrist lock style, with your thumb on the back of thier hand) and perform a left hand 'soto uke' whilst stepping back into stance and twisting thier wrist over with your kime hand. The blocking arm comes down on the back of opponents elbow at exaclty the right time as thier arm is pulled, twisted and locked. Done slowly, with control, the opponent ends up bent at the waist in a pretty good arm lock. done with speed and power, I imagine an opponent of roughly equal size and strength would end up face down on the floor, possibly with a broken arm and maybe even wrist... ouch.

I did a little judo and jujitsu when I was a (very young) nipper, and a LOT of the karate blocks contain circular motions very similar to those used in arm locks and throws. I'm not saying 'all the blocks are throws' or anything, but the potential for many of them to be used as such certainly seems to be there.

I reckon the 'double blocks' at the start of Heian Sandan are prime candidate for this sort of application..  anyone got any ideas... ?

Guy

[JimmyTheHoover]

GuyB,

my earlier references to "primary" and "secondary" limb and technique are simply a (my?) way of referring to the sequence of moves associated with most blocks.

Take Age-Uke as an example (and I hope my KUGB "Pedigree" isn't showing here guys   ) in the Kihon drill for the syllabus I mentioned each block involves stepping forward (assume starting in left gedan-barai as at a grading) the left hand (primary limb) shoots forward as you step through and is then retracted as the right hand/arm (secondary limb) is used to perform the Age-Uke. The prior sequence is  a fairly basic description of an Age-Uke block.

Take the following variation as another example but this time imagine an opponent in front of you punching Jodun Tsuki with his right hand :-

Once again stepping forward from left gedan-barai as at a grading) the left hand (primary limb) shoots forward as you step through but this time see this as the "primary" technique and block the punch Tate-Shuto continue by using the left hand to grab the attacking limb and twit the arm to expose the elbow joint facing the floor and now as you continue forward hold on as the primary limb is retracted and this time as the right hand/arm (secondary limb) is used to perform the Age-Uke action (now secondary technique and Age-Uchi) to damage/break the arm/elbow.

This may still be a little unclear but at least hopefully it willmake some of my earlier ramblings a bit clearer.

Cheers,

JTH

[Moley]

We actually teach this.
Whilst performing the Kata, the raising of the left hand, prior to an attacking Age Uke (as opposed to a blocking one) is plainly visible as a blocking movement.

Many instances of what was initially ( Brisish Karate 1970's ) referred to as "Reaction hand " have in fact a practical application.
No movement is "wasted" or performed if it doesn't have a function.

Take Shu-to for example... as opposed to Shuto uke

enough no more sharing "Secrets"