Author Topic: Google and 8 bits  (Read 2542 times)

Offline Moley

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Google and 8 bits
« on: September 22, 2005, 10:27:32 AM »
Guy's point is very significant. Many people nowadays just "Google" it.
Will go and give it a try now.

Karate Bangor

1st Page (Which is probably the only one that counts)
Seki second on the list, a Shukokai Club under Karate in North Wales, the rest Bangor Maine ?

Karate North wales search. The Shukokai club wins.. Seki last but two.

Karate Gwynedd search..not so hot.. Shukokai wins again, vague reference to seki.
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline GuyB

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2005, 10:29:14 AM »
Quote from: Moley
Guy's point is very significant. Many people nowadays just "Google" it.
Will go and give it a try now.


Seki Ryu Zan is the second entry if you google 'Karate Bangor'. The first is just a general 'martial arts in North Wales' link. Thats pretty good going.
"All warfare is based on deception."

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Offline Huw

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2005, 10:59:13 AM »
Quote from: GuyB
Thats pretty good going.

Thank you very much Guy - faint praise indeed.

Searches & Results
karate bangor - 2nd and 6th out of 75,400 results (Seki site)
karate wales - 2nd and 5th out of 646,000 results (Seki site)
karate cymru - 3rd and 6th out of 809 results (WTKF site)
karate welsh - 1st and 3rd out of 283,000 results (WTKF site)
karate university bangor - 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th out of 66,700 results (links to Seki and WTKF)

Yes I agree that's "pretty good"  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

See you later ...
The hunter that chases two rabbits catches neither one.

Offline GuyB

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2005, 11:12:18 AM »
Quote from: Huw

See you later ...


Hold your horses there hot shot. Moleys googling had less favourable results..  you wouldn't be 'cherry picking' those search strings would you? :twisted:
"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu

Offline Moley

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2005, 11:44:24 AM »
How does GOOGLE know ?

If something is added to a page, does it go there again to see it ?
Does it visit pages every day ?
How long would it take to find out about a new page or a new item ?
Can it find this post I'm posting now ?

If I made up a new word for example GOOGIEFIND how long before a Google search with the keyword GOOGIEFIND goes to this page ?

Does it matter how many words are on the page i.e. if you wrote Karate Bangor North Wales 100 times would it come first ?

GOOGIEFIND Googiefind Googiefind
CONFUSED
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline GuyB

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2005, 12:47:00 PM »
Quote from: Moley
How does GOOGLE know ?


Good question - which I duly 'googled' to find:

"Crawler-based search engines, such as Google, create their listings automatically. They "crawl" or "spider" the web, then people search through what they have found.

If you change your web pages, crawler-based search engines eventually find these changes, and that can affect how you are listed. Page titles, body copy and other elements all play a role.

Crawler-based search engines have three major elements. First is the spider, also called the crawler. The spider visits a web page, reads it, and then follows links to other pages within the site. This is what it means when someone refers to a site being "spidered" or "crawled." The spider returns to the site on a regular basis, such as every month or two, to look for changes.

Everything the spider finds goes into the second part of the search engine, the index. The index, sometimes called the catalog, is like a giant book containing a copy of every web page that the spider finds. If a web page changes, then this book is updated with new information.

Sometimes it can take a while for new pages or changes that the spider finds to be added to the index. Thus, a web page may have been "spidered" but not yet "indexed." Until it is indexed -- added to the index -- it is not available to those searching with the search engine.

Search engine software is the third part of a search engine. This is the program that sifts through the millions of pages recorded in the index to find matches to a search and rank them in order of what it believes is most relevant. You can learn more about how search engine software ranks web pages on the aptly-named How Search Engines Rank Web Pages page.

All crawler-based search engines have the basic parts described above, but there are differences in how these parts are tuned. That is why the same search on different search engines often produces different results. Some of the significant differences between the major crawler-based search engines are summarized on the Search Engine Features Page. Information on this page has been drawn from the help pages of each search engine, along with knowledge gained from articles, reviews, books, independent research, tips from others and additional information received directly from the various search engines."

Heres the link for the How Search Engines Rank Web Pages page:

http://searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/article.php/2167961

if you read the article, it basically says that the ranking algorithms are blummin complicated.. and often a secret! Furthermore, search engines actively penalise attempts to artificially up the rankings of your site. Generally though, ranking seems to be done by the following criteria

PAGE TITLE - does it match the search string?
Content - Do the words of the search string appear anywhere in the page content.
Frequency - How often the word(s) appear (but there are anti-spamming safeguards, so putting the same word 100s of times won't work)

More complicated Engines like google probably also use statistical methods to increase the rank of certain pages (like how often the page has been picked from a search engine shortlist.)
"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu

Offline Moley

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2005, 01:13:31 PM »
Quote from: GuyB

More complicated Engines like google probably also use statistical methods to increase the rank of certain pages (like how often the page has been picked from a search engine shortlist.)


Ahhhhhhhh So if we all accessed these pages via google every time and not via "Favourites"....The Seki Ranking on google would be increased !
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline Huw

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2005, 01:21:15 PM »
If it was as simple as that Moley I'd have written a bot to access the home page every few seconds !!

Google's ranking system is a very well kept secret. I guess only a very few people on earth know exactly how it works - because anyone selling the information (ex-employees etc.) would make a fortune.

FYI we seem to be spidered pretty much every day by both MSN and Google but indexing seems to take anything up to a month.

Anyway, our rakings seem to be "pretty good"  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:
The hunter that chases two rabbits catches neither one.

Offline GuyB

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2005, 01:22:06 PM »
Quote from: Moley
Quote from: GuyB

More complicated Engines like google probably also use statistical methods to increase the rank of certain pages (like how often the page has been picked from a search engine shortlist.)


Ahhhhhhhh So if we all accessed these pages via google every time and not via "Favourites"....The Seki Ranking on google would be increased !


Possibly.. its hard to tell wether google uses methods like this. If it does, it might be more complicated than just a simple clickthrough count. I get the impression that an awful lot of time and effort goes in to preventing people from artificially increasing thier web-sites rankings (which is a bit of a shame).

Best bet is to just make the Seki site better and bigger, with more info about karate than other pages. The larger and more varied the site, the more hits it gets
"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu

Offline Huw

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2005, 02:20:23 PM »
Quote from: GuyB
Best bet is to just make the Seki site better and bigger, with more info about karate than other pages. The larger and more varied the site, the more hits it gets


Dontcha just LOVE the sound of someone volunteering to loose their Christmas holidays.

Our MSN Results
karate bangor - 2nd and 10th out of 6,397 results (Seki then WTKF sites)
karate wales -  4th and 5th out of 75,850 results(WTKF site)
karate cymru - 1st,2nd,3rd and 8th out of 1,980 results(WTKF site and links)
karate welsh - 15th out of 32,530 results (WTKF site)
karate university bangor - 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th out of 3,165 (Seki site and then links)

"pretty good"  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:
The hunter that chases two rabbits catches neither one.

Offline GuyB

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Google and 8 bits
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2005, 02:29:56 PM »
Quote from: Huw

Dontcha just LOVE the sound of someone volunteering to loose their Christmas holidays.


Well, my webskills are limited to basic HTML, a bit of Javascript (enough to make buttons work) and so on. Not really done any for a while, but I could probably get back into it. I actually learned how to use Flash 5 at one point for a band site.. got pretty good too.. but sadly all forgotten now. If you imagine a 1999 website.. thats about where my level is - I still think frames are cool  :?
"All warfare is based on deception."

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Offline Azzy_Stealth

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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2005, 04:43:25 PM »
Ah good old frames. Handy in those days before the widely available broadband, but they made sites a little too restrictive.  :roll:
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Offline gizmo

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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2005, 09:19:48 PM »
Huw - Could you not start a special thread where you techie types can go and communicate in your own peculiar little language. You could maybe add some whirring, whining, droning sounds to make you feel at home. Probably a good idea to password protect it to prevent any unsuspecting members of the public (or especially me or for that case anyone I care about) from inadvertently wandering on to it. :lol:

Offline GuyB

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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2005, 07:38:36 AM »
Quote from: gizmo
Huw - Could you not start a special thread where you techie types can go and communicate in your own peculiar little language.


11100011 11100011 11101101 01010101 10010101 00101010 11010101
"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu

Offline Moley

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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2005, 09:06:26 AM »
Quote from: GuyB
Quote from: gizmo
Huw - Could you not start a special thread where you techie types can go and communicate in your own peculiar little language.


11100011 11100011 11101101 01010101 10010101 00101010 11010101


Excellent response Guy. This will ensure that your Ranking (Dead Man walking) is now once again fully active and you are in no way in danger of losing it.
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.