Author Topic: The new soto uke  (Read 3197 times)

Offline Huw

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The new soto uke
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2005, 09:42:21 PM »
Quote from: Tryfan
In twenty years of training I have never been taught it as being across, ie as moving on a horizontal plane, always diagonal type technique.

Ah, yes I think there's a misunderstanding brewing here. We've always been taught soto-uke as a diagonal movement - it's the 'angle of attack' which seems to have changed radically. Unless I dreampt all this up we used to train soto-uke with a fairly shallow "across" 'angle of attack'. Now the technique seems to be performed with a very steep downwards angle.
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Offline Lloydie

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The new soto uke
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2005, 10:03:28 PM »
Huw, I think the misunderstanding may have come from the initial "prepare" phase.  When learning the block it is useful to use a whole body movement beginning with the arm high up, and preparing for a sweeping action.  Maybe beginners find it easier to keep the elbow out, utilising the upper body in a sweeping across arc.  More experienced karateka will tend to keep the elbow closer to the body and utilise the hikite and hip twist in order to generate power.

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Offline Tryfan

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The new soto uke
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2005, 10:48:43 PM »
Quote from: Moley
Quote from: Tryfan
But what about Ifans the Tryc?



"There's one Good thing about Wales.
We've got SNOWDON
and it kills five or six of you English B..... every year"


Reminds me.  I was on Crib Goch in JUly, it was a bit misty and raining.  Came across two Englishmen, holding onto the ridge for dear life.  Both dressed in jeans and trainers.  "We seem to have lost the path" says one of em.  I said "You're holding on to it".  I think they missed the sign that says "Danger: Crib Goch" that's on the stile.  I then had to guide them the rest of the way, sh1tting themselves they were.  Pair of 2@s.  Left them climbing up to Carnedd Ugain, didn't see them after that.  Hope they were ok.
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Offline KeithH

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The new soto uke
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2005, 06:09:50 PM »
The antics that take place on Snowdon in winter always amazes me.  I don't know what it is, maybe the nearness of the road and the easy approach Glaslyn that tempts people on or is it  Moley's Ifan Tryc's curse?  
A couple of years ago, when we had a half descent winter, I climbed Great Gully on Snowdon with a mate.  We got to the top with very little bother and  I'm sure we must have looked like crazed medevil knights; snow and ice covered, armed to the teeth with axes, hammers ropes pitons you name it we had it!  Anyway what amazed us was the number of people there just wearing trainers, light windproofs, walking sticks etc. and it was far from a perfect day, there were strong gusts of wind and it was cold and cloudy.
Anyway, we descended quickly to the col and the fingerstone, that some of you may know marks the descent back to Glaslyn. On top of the stone was perched a gawking raven! Now I'm not superstitious but..  I though-- well, just incase I'd better put my crampons back on.  Sure enough  lower down the path became  completely covered by a wide sheet of ice and stuck halfway across, in the mist was a lad sitting on a rock embedded in it. Further more, a bit further down was  his poor, hyserical girlfriend clinging to an even smaller rock!  Naturally we tied them onto a rope and guided them back down to easy ground.

The moral of this little episode is of course,  remember Ifans Trycs warning, be prepared and always remeber s... happens.

Offline JimmyTheHoover

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2005, 07:37:43 PM »
IMHO - the main problem with teaching beginners the "across" version (apart from it being wrong of course  :shock:) i sthat you frequently end up with beginers trying to rely on an upper body technique and totally forget about the hip rotation and snap that actually is fundamental in giving the technique its devastating power........
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Offline Huw

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2005, 04:56:47 PM »
apart from it being wrong of course  :shock:
Interestingly both of the foreign students training with us at the moment use a very flat attack angle with soto uke. We even discussed the thing during the Christmas party  O:)  O:) Don't get me wrong, they have effective technique, I'm not slagging them off. It's just interesting thatthey were also taught a much 'flatter' technique.

Out of interest I did some searches for pics or diagrams of soto uke and there is a fair amount of variation:

http://www.superkarate.ru/osnova_bl_soto.htm

http://www.netsport-magazine.com/archives/images/self-defense_technic_03.jpg

http://www.ckam.ch/techn/sotouke.gif

http://www.stavangerkarateklubb.no/GifJpg/Teknikker/sotouke.jpg

Interesting dontcha think?
The hunter that chases two rabbits catches neither one.

Offline gungnir

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2005, 05:19:40 PM »
One of the "foreign students " is speaking now !!! :evil: What makes me think about the Welsh Soto- Uke is that you don't twist/ turn your forearm in the last moment of the technique. That makes the new Soto- Uke very painfull.  ](*,)
I think it is better to teach the new Soto- Uke when the main - error the distance of your arm to your body is.
But when you want to teach the hip- movement it is better to teach the old Soto- Uke.
 There are aspects in "both" techniques which are very important, so why don't teach both ...?  O:)
Learn Soto- Uke = Old method (better to learn)
advanced class  =  New method (advanced class has to know how Soto - Uke works)

Offline Moley

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2005, 05:25:55 PM »
:evil: What makes me think about the Welsh Soto- Uke is that you don't twist/ turn your forearm in the last moment of the technique. That makes the new Soto- Uke very painfull.  ](*,)

I'm sure I do the twist !!!!
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
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Offline gungnir

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2005, 05:27:37 PM »
You also speak about horses and how to punish little children !!! :mrgreen:

Offline Lloydie

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2005, 06:08:34 PM »
As far as I am aware, we have always taught initial up, then down and across movement, twisting on impact.  I certainly teach it this way, and I know Moley et al always teach it this way.  Far as I can see there are not 2 techniques here, the fact that some students might be doing it differently to that which is taught is another thing.

Lloydie
The banker man grows fat
Working man grows thin
It's all happened before
And it'll all happen again

Offline Moley

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2005, 07:35:26 PM »
You also speak about horses and how to punish little children !!! :mrgreen:

Gungnir;
You are so new !
I say lots of things ... So many things.. I just get carried away
One day they will carry me away!
Some things I come out with are really O.T.T
Just can't help it.
Ask about all the Pantomime lines I came up with..

One I can remember is:
"I hate poodles !
Don't do karate like a Poodle.
Don't be as poodle...be a Dragon!"

Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline gungnir

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2005, 06:18:05 PM »
You are absolutely right ...  :oops:  I will try to do karate like a dragon (a little dragon in growth - but a dragon)!

Offline GuyB

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2005, 08:20:24 PM »
I'm quiet because I have other things on the BURN at the moment. MEGA THINGS >> TO DO WITH SURVIVAL.  A Bomb I planted Just went off in my face.

:shock:
Sometimes Moley, you scare the $hit outta me.. actually make that most of the time..

"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu

Offline Moley

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2005, 09:23:34 PM »
I'm quiet because I have other things on the BURN at the moment. MEGA THINGS >> TO DO WITH SURVIVAL.  A Bomb I planted Just went off in my face.

:shock:
Sometimes Moley, you scare the $hit outta me.. actually make that most of the time..



Ahhhh Good
So I can put you down for Edinburgh next summer then ?

BTW the bomb that went off in my face turned out to be a disaster for the opposition !

Will P.M. you



Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline JimmyTheHoover

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Re: The new soto uke
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2005, 01:57:09 AM »
You are absolutely right ...  :oops:  I will try to do karate like a dragon (a little dragon in growth - but a dragon)!

Just make sure that the "Little Dragon" drops his weight into his stance as he blocks Soto-Uke  :wink: which of course is much easier to learn when bringing the blocking hand "Down From On High" - where all good things come from  O:)
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