Topic: Kata Bunkai

[Moley]

Do you think that each and every move in Kata has it's own particular "Bunkai" (Meaning) or do you think that each move can have several "Bunkai" arising from different situations (Such as positioning, distance method of attack etc ?
Does it matter, or should you just do Kata "Parrot fashion" ?
Anyone care to elaborate?

[Jon C]

Reading the "Shotokan Magazine" there was a very
experienced karateka in it who said that when she studied in
Japan, bunkai was not taught to students until they were at least third dan.

Is it a Western trait to learn bunkai at a relatively early stage rather than just learn the kata?

[Hades]

Moley,

'Kata wa tadashiku, jissen wa betsumono'

(Do the Kata correctly, the real fight is a different matter)

Funakoshi Gichin.
Twenty precepts of Karate-Do

[gizmo]

For me Kata is my library of techniques and as such it offers endless research opportunities. If you merely perform kata as a physical exercise then these research opportunities are missed. In kata practice there are no limits to what techniques you can mentally and physically practice whereas during kumite there are several limitations. Certainly I would agree with 'Kata wa tadashiku, jissen wa betsumono' that you should endeavour to keep true to the kata during performance. I believe equally strongly however that the process of kata practice and it's value as a research tool may be of more importance than the end product.

[Mole Bach]

For me Kata is my library of techniques and as such it offers endless research opportunities

I agree with Gizmo on this point, it allows practice of 'lethal/dangerous' techniques in a relatively safe environment, but also gives "food for thought" as it were to those searching for the 'hidden' message of Kata.

As for Moley's theory of many different applications to every move/technique in Kata, this I believe is dependant on distance/timing/target etc. of the attacker.  I personally believe that this idea of many different applications of Kata is correct, and that the adaptability of the Karate-ka is what makes Kata bunkai workable.

[Moley]

The problem I get with studying Kata Bunkai is that it hurts so much!
Since Gizmo and Mole bach are really conscienscious instructors they make sure that the Bunkai is really effective and also make sure that you know it!
Apart from the fact that it's usually me being used as the "stunt/fall guy" I also get nightmares when Gizmo demonstrates that head twist thing on some poor demo partner. Things like inquest and court cases cross my mind.
tips -
1.Never ask Gizmo to demonstrate how to use a kubotan.. I made that mistake once and he only released me when I was squealing in pain on the floor.
2. Don't go on the back of a motorbike with him.

Seriously though I like seeing the different strategies they come up with for different situations. Perhaps we can see more soon !  But no more "head twists" this has been banned by the Geneva Convention.

[dogberry]

I found last nights 2nd session training was an excellent insight into some meaning of kata and particularly the demonstration of the first three moves in GODAN and how in fact they fit into the scheme of kata. PAUL and GWYN's input last night instilled the fact that you MUST imagine that there is someone there and that you are fighting for your survival
I feel their input last night has changed my perspective on all KATA and has given me that added boost to GIVE a little more to it and to understand there is a relevence to it all and there is no way you can rush and it is forever a learning curve.

Lorna thought it amusing that i was demonstrated upon and was left strewn in a pile  on the floor. But as Paul demonstrated the moves (block /punch/throw) are a gradual breaking down of your opponent but in a matter of a second or two and not just a series of fancy moves

On arriving home LORNA was buzzing and wanting to attempt the same moves as PAUL upon myself and she did so with success, with a little cooperation from dad of course....honest!!!

She too has seen the relevence of it all and hopefully will give that extra now she understands that there is a meaning to all this and it is not just a series of moves that you learn, perform and progress onto the next belt.

Cannot wait till Thursday!!!!

MOLEY,
          I felt so disrespectful in taking the mick out of SENSEI's mugshot that I have shaved off all of my hair in disgrace.It will not happen again.As I do not want fall victim of PAUL's HEADLOCK move. Very impressive and could be painful.;



DOGBERRY

[Moley]

It's called Ten no Kata and is basically a drill made up by Funakoshi sensei. I have seen many variations on it and it really isn't a grading kata as such. However it's bloody difficult to do properly as you cannot hide your mistakes. Rather than worry about learning it as a kata, concentrate on what it want's you to do. i.e. stance, speed power, but especially POSTURE !

[Lloydie]

On issues of bunkai and browsing through the seki manual JKA videos - any ideas what the 3 hops at the end of Chinte signify??

lloydie

[Moley]

On issues of bunkai and browsing through the seki manual JKA videos - any ideas what the 3 hops at the end of Chinte signify??

lloydie

Over the years I have been given many explanations, including silly ones about aviding a swing by a chained weapon.
The most sensible explanation for me seem to be that the JKA invented it so that they could end up on the ENBUSEN mark.

[Moley]

Re- Title of this thread:

Bunkai is a Japanese word that means taking apart, dismantling, or breaking down into components (Kodansha, 1999). Therefore, in karate the term kata bunkai would imply that one is taking the kata and breaking it down in to more manageable parts. This is often done with areas of a kata that are more challenging to the students than other parts. Rather than terming this type of activity as the study of kata application, it is perhaps more accurate to label it as kata analysis.
 
The second term, oyo, may be translated as application or putting to a particular use (Kodansha, 1999). Therefore, if kata can be defined as a prescribed sequence of techniques against imaginary opponents, one manner in which oyo be defined is simply as kata with real opponents. In other words, oyo is the interpretation, application and demonstration of the techniques found in kata through the use of partners. Though under that definition it may actually be more accurate to classify this type of activity under the kumite banner rather than that of kata.

[Lloydie]

Nice one Moley!  I always struggled with the Bunkai and Oyo definitions.  Analysis and Application, that makes so much sense, especially in the Kumite/application of oyo.

lloydie

[Mole Bach]

Dave,

Notice the modified 'Harvard referencing' system adopted by Moley?

Diploma level?

I.T.N

[Moley]

Last night in the "SPECIAL" session we did a bit on Nijushiho.
My argument that it's more Goju Ryu than Shotokan and we tried to do it as "both".
i.e. as a Shotokan kate (With long stances + Yoko geri's) and as a Goju kata (Short stocky and strong without kicks). I found it more Goju style.
Then we went on to the application whereby I totally disagreed with all the (Sorry Eryl.........J.K.A.) explanations. (I will immediately go and wash my mouth out with soap and water!) and came up with more "street brawl" type applications.
I found these much more "useful"

Any comments ?

[Mole Bach]

as a Goju kata (Short stocky and strong without kicks). I found it more Goju style.

Moley,

Have this one on tape, an old footage of early JKA training, with a VERY young Kase and Asai.  The Kata Nijushiho is performed just as you have explained, using 'nami-ashi' instead of the 'yoko-geri', and shorter stances and techniques.

Will try to 'dig it up' over the festive period, and try to make a copy of it for those who are interested.

Incidently, for those of you interested in the history of Shotokan; the Kata's were brought over from Okinawa to Japan by O'sensei Funakoshi, who had been taught BOTH styles of Karate on Okinawa, Shuri-te and Naha-te (cities on the island).  

The Shuri Kata's were the fast flowing Kata we practice today such as Tekki, Enpi and Gankaku, and the Naha kata's were the early Go-Ju one's such as Jutte, Sochin and Bassai.

So you see, "same but different".