Topic: What about That BIt In This Kata ?

[Huw]

Best interpretation of a whole Kata I've ever seen.

Agreed.

... also you don't have to think multiple ill fitting scenarios.

That's what I don't like about some suggested bunkai - it doesn't seem to "fit". The moves differ too much from the kata itself - which always leaves me puzzled! Why would a kata be the way it is if the application required (sometimes wildly) differing moves?!! Personally I like the way Sensei Naito uses bunkai as part of his teaching. The moves in bunkai he demonstrates precisely mirror those of the kata (though not linear in performance).

Huw - Bring Camera - I will bring proper Bo... We'll film it >

OK, remind me on Monday. Does anyone have a 'proper' video camera? Mine isn't so good.

[JimmyTheHoover]

So now then - what about the Yoi position/movements in Kata - do you think that they are part of the Kata - and - if so - do they have any associated Bunkai.......

[Lloydie]

Absolutely.  They are a key part to the kata I believe.  For the Heian series, the bunkai can be several attacks/defenses e.g. break out from a double collar hold, double grab to head for a headbut attack, alter the timing of the arms e.g. to create a downward break from a low hold to sweep the other hand to jodan attacks etc.  The more "advanced" kata have some clearer grab/lock/break application IMHO, but I am constantly telling Kyu peeps that yoi is a very real part of the kata and application, not just a "ready" position. 

Lloydie

[JimmyTheHoover]

Absolutely.  They are a key part to the kata I believe.  For the Heian series, the bunkai can be several attacks/defenses e.g. break out from a double collar hold, double grab to head for a headbut attack, alter the timing of the arms e.g. to create a downward break from a low hold to sweep the other hand to jodan attacks etc.  The more "advanced" kata have some clearer grab/lock/break application IMHO, but I am constantly telling Kyu peeps that yoi is a very real part of the kata and application, not just a "ready" position. 

Lloydie

Absolutely ! - BUT now then.....

.....what about the return to Yoi at the end of the Kata ? ...... any different ? 

[Mole Bach]

The yoi at the begining and end of the Heian Katas' I think are just a formality, after all they were developed by Funakoshi Sensei to enable them to be taught in mainstream schools.

The Yoi for the advanced katas' however I believe to be 'Kamae' 

Kase Sensei used to say that ANY possition could be 'Kamae', a possition that would enable you to either block or attack; take for example the different 'Kamae' that he adopted, left hand by his right hip, right hand held high above his head, he would use the left hand as a sweeping Shuto, that would deflect an attack, then come down with his right hand as a counter; other times his left hand would be held high in front, with his right hand held low behind, when the attack came, he would lower his left hand to block and counter using 'Hente', and then bring his right arm in with a 'Hito'.

The Yoi for the advanced Kata I think is for this reason, and that every Kata served a different purpose, e.g. in this situation you use this Kata, for that confrontation you use that (well...............maybe, but you get my jist ).

I do'nt know, what do you gyu's think.

[JimmyTheHoover]

I think that I tend to think along similar lines as yourself M-B.......

....especially as you say with the "Advanced" Katas - I think that the Kamae aspect is often overlooked and is extremely inmportant with respect to achieving the "continulation" (always thought that was meant to be continuation myself....  )  between moves......

Whilst you can dream-up/devise "applications" for the basic Yoi movements/positions I poersonally think it's more about the mental attitude involved rather than he physivcal movements themselves.....

[Lloydie]

JTH wrote:

I personally think it's more about the mental attitude involved rather than he physical movements themselves

or as Naito Sensei puts it when someone switches off at the end of the kata:

Somebody.....YOU!!!!  NOT "keep keep" 

 

Lloydie

[JimmyTheHoover]

JTH wrote:

I personally think it's more about the mental attitude involved rather than he physical movements themselves

or as Naito Sensei puts it when someone switches off at the end of the kata:

Somebody.....YOU!!!!  NOT "keep keep" 

 

Lloydie

  Indeed - but also not switching off between moves during the Kata but maintaining Zanshin/Awareness/Kamae........