Author Topic: If we were young Today. (A question for us Golden oldies)  (Read 717 times)

Offline Moley

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If we were young Today. (A question for us Golden oldies)
« on: December 06, 2006, 04:51:26 PM »
  I have thought long and hard about this posting by Lyndon Davies on the K.U.Forum:

Quote from: Lyndon_Davies
When I started back in the 70s it was definitely promoted that way (and was one of the main drivers for me going there).  I've stayed because I enjoyed it (in a masochistic sort of way) and because I made good friends and had good experiences. 
The thing is, I think back then it really was a good practical self defence and if you were adept at karate, you could be regarded as okay at looking after yourself.

Same here mate

 
Quote from: Lyndon_Davies
But back then, if you didn't box, do judo, or got regularly into fights, you weren't any kind of "combat savvy".

  Exactly !

Quote from: Lyndon_Davies
Now, everybody and his brother "used to do" karate, kung fu, killer kick burping  :D  or have seen a film or two and are familiar with the possibilities.     Couple that with the fact that slowly but surely karate has (in the majority of clubs) been reduced to a sport, an art, a way of free expression.    The concept of taking (and receiving) blows has been stylised into a game.
It's surely not insignificant that "self defence responses" (regardless of what you felt about their effectiveness) have been removed from most grading syllabusses (or is that syllabi?).
I still maintain that the type of person who used to go to karate clubs now will gravitate towards MMA because it appears to give a far more realistic alternative.   Whether it's more effective depends on what training you do, but let's face it, they look meaner !

The question is : If I (and you 1970's GOLDEN OLDIES) just happened to be 17/18 yrs old TODAY,   bearing in mind the influences and culture pressures that existed for us in the early 70's
( BRUCE LEE - Skinheads - BRUCE LEE -Kwai Chang Kane -BRUCE LEE  etc) it was these things that drove us all to the Karate door...( + the fact that I was beaten up by a Shodan in wado Ryu.. But that is another story)

What influences and culture pressures exist TODAY ! and to whose door would we be driven to and why ? Please elaborate everybody
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.

Offline wani

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Re: If we were young Today. (A question for us Golden oldies)
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2006, 10:04:50 PM »
Being of a mid-point age wrt your question Gwyn, during my teens I wanted to practice Kung Fu and did follow freestyle Kung Fu for a couple of years in Benllech, whilst doing a year of Wado Ryu with an emergent club in Holyhead (mid-late 80's). All of this was definitely influenced by the Bruce Lee genre.

Simple, effective self-defence and fighting fitness were my primary objectives in the services and in my late 20's (late 90's).

However, so far the technique and power of what we train in at Seki really pushes the buttons, just wish I was more all-round fit and supple now.
Combining our syllubi with the short exposure to kata-derived bunkai of Mr. H Cook, I am comfortable that our style and training is effective if needed, given muscle memory and instinctive reaction to attacks (scenarios of which I mainly concentrate on the kickbag at the mo).

Back to your Q:

Culture pressures demand that we try to avert trouble and rationalise a situation first, even positive body language (posture and hands/feet in 'ready' positions) and distancing (spacial awareness and presenting small target) when feeling threatened can increase your chances either way - 'drilled in' Seki savvi, I guess.

Influences are that we as a nation are generally unfit, do not get out enough and are not interactive with others - Seki training releases inhibitions (we can only train through getting within another's 'space'), promotes respectful behaviour and forces us out on cold evenings to train - can't be bad.
Other influences such as action movies do have a lot of loose MA in them, if we are not too rigid with technique = result and could be more mindful of opening+appropriate technique executed reasonably well to a vital point = result, then Shotokan has a continued future. I am not going to regurgitate the topic of McDojos at this time.

I also note the comments:
'
"Now, everybody and his brother "used to do" karate, kung fu, killer kick burping" - coz that is an easy conversation opener, just like everybody 'had trials for Man U'. 90% of these people never graded more than once, or competed.

"Whether it's more effective depends on what training you do, but let's face it, they look meaner !"
- really? real nasty b4$tards (MB, Eryl, Moley, etc ('spect MB)) scare the s4!t out of opponents coz they look so devastatingly CONTROLLED about their business. Do we want to be mean/superficial? Talk is one thing - Isn't it the eventual result that counts?

I was looking for an MA with strength in depth, a range of quality techniques passed on by people who irrespective of age, build or gender could be absolutely devastating for those few seconds when facing an opponent. You call it IPPON.

My goal was to identify that those devastating techniques were not the product of a gifted Jean-Claud VD athlete, but of regular and disciplined TRAINING.

I would choose and continue to recommend Seki.

W



W
"Learn Karate-Inside".

Offline gizmo

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Re: If we were young Today. (A question for us Golden oldies)
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 12:02:29 AM »
Moley - When I was 17 I had 5 things on my mind:

Sex
Women
Girls
Beer
Joanna Lumley 8)

Good question and sorry for being flippant and I will post a sensible response when I've got more time.

Offline Moley

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Re: If we were young Today. (A question for us Golden oldies)
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2006, 02:54:41 PM »
Quote from: Moley
Quote from: Moley
The question is : If I (and you 1970's GOLDEN OLDIES) just happened to be 17/18 yrs old TODAY,   bearing in mind the influences and culture pressures that existed for us in the early 70's
( BRUCE LEE - Skinheads - BRUCE LEE -Kwai Chang Kane -BRUCE LEE  etc) it was these things that drove us all to the Karate door...( + the fact that I was beaten up by a Shodan in wado Ryu.. But that is another story)

What influences and culture pressures exist TODAY ! and to whose door would we be driven to and why ? Please elaborate everybody


Quote from: Lyndon_Davies

Ramble over….  What would I do now?  In my Sports Centre it would still be karate because it is the most structured (and most of the alternatives here are crap).   If there was a good MMA club I might do that because it looks more frightening.   Most of the teenagers I know (including the ones who do karate) are lifting large quantities of weights (partly for cosmetic reasons) so I might just have done that.   Who knows?    I’m just grateful I was where I was at the time.


Thanks for that Lyndon.
So forgive my being "out of touch" with today's youth culture, but who are their influences ?  Do they do anything apart from hang around Spar in hoodies all evening in the pouring rain or send text messages and go on MSN ?  Are there any films like BRUCE LEE'S that make them think "Hey, better learn some of that $4it or I will be at a disadvatage in my next fight if anyone else learns it first"

What scares me most is that if I was young today and really really wanted to learn to fight effectively, the "INFORMATION" that is all so readily available in our area is that of the McDojo. "Learn self defence etc etc..."
So would I end up there ? Are kids nowadays "savvy" to the McDojo (and dare I say it... Most karate clubs?)
Cryf oedd calon hen y glas glogwyni,
Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddur,
Chwyddodd gyfoeth gwr yr aur a'r faenol,
O'i enillion prin a'i amal gur.