Topic: Heian Nidan

[Huw]

Never quite got this one.

The kick towards the begining of heian nidan - what is it ? Yoko geri kegomi or keagi. I never understood which one - so like all students I just did it quickly and prayed !!!

Reminds me of when I used to be involved with music. I read in the memoires of a famous guitarist " If you play a bum note, play it again and grimace - then people will think it's deliberate !!!" What do you reckon Dave ?

[Lloydie]

Hi Huw,

            It is a snap kick (keage).  Moley always advises leaving the uraken fist out a little longer than the kick.  As you say the temptation is to get the damn thing over with quickly so that you can move on to some "sweeter notes" ( I like the guitar analogy).  Also important to bring the foot back to the knee in order to snap it down as the back leg in the following shuto uke.

Interestingly, it was in Sensei Naito's session in Edinburgh, when he was concentrating on this very move in Heian Nidan, that I realised that it is a half-step that precedes the kick, not the full step up I was trying to do and which makes the keage much more difficult. (Having said that,I was in mortal fear that Naito Sensei would drag me up to demonstrate how not to do it, hence I was trying to hide behind you at the time).

lloydie  (playing bum notes on the kata but with 1st class grimacing     )

[Moley]

Well done that man!

Lloydey will demonstrate the Yoko Geri Keagi/Uraken Mawashi empi in the Kata from now on!

[Lloydie]

Oi, Moley - I thought you were in sunny Espanol    

if you are - what are you doing logged on to the SRZ forum  

lloydie

[Shari]

Oi, Moley - I thought you were in sunny Espanol    

Moley you lucky thing. Send some sun here. I have spent my day in a very cold Colege Llandrillo doing my COSH course. Bring some sun home with you.

Hope you have a nice time.

 (here was- 4 last night)

[Moley]

Ola

Hope you lot are practising really hard.  

Hasta la vista, baby!

Moley

[Shari]

Moley are you back for Kata Saturday

[Mole Bach]

Glad to see that everybody is practising 'heian Ni-dan'.

I think that this is an excellent Kata to practice for Kihon.  This is a personal favorate of mine, I try to 'immerse' myself into the Kata and try to achieve a state of 'zen' (no, I'm not taking the p***), I have only achieved this once, but when I had finished the Kata, I could FEEL "something".

Hard to put into words,

Oh, I know,

YOU TRY

[Moley]

I think I know how to explain in layman's terms the "Feeling" Mole bach is on about........

Communication

Communicating with your opponent, during Kumite and also during Kata.
Following a really interesting discussion over the weekend, this will be the basis of my sermon for the next few months.

[Huw]

In the beginning of Nidan there's the double block and then .... something! Hook punch then a chudan backfist strike is what we do but Tom told me recently that in Canada they perform this with the 'arm break' technique instead! Who changed this and why?!!

In Edinburgh last year Mr Naito demonstrated the arm break technique (on me  ) so I find it hard to understand why we perform the hook punch instead.

There you go JTH - a karate related posting. 

[Lloydie]

In the beginning of Nidan there's the double block and then .... something! Hook punch then a chudan backfist strike is what we do but Tom told me recently that in Canada they perform this with the 'arm break' technique instead! Who changed this and why?!!

In Edinburgh last year Mr Naito demonstrated the arm break technique (on me  Sad) so I find it hard to understand why we perform the hook punch instead.

I was explaining a bit of this in Jutte last night.  THe technique in the kata is what it is, i.e. the "hook punch" is performed that way.  The variations on what this might be in Oyo or Bunkai are many, however the *form* in the kata dictates that it is a hook punch.  I suspect that the Canada group have decided that the arm break is a more realistic application and have simply incorporated it as such into their kata.  Best not to think of it as anything specific (other than for the purposes of learning the "correct" form of the kata) for example the "hook punch" easily turns into a grab and takedown, striking to the throat.

Lloydie

[GuyB]

I've seen this technique explained as a figure-4 arm *lock* response to a jodan hook punch!!

Once in Ian Abernethy's 'Bunkai Jutsu'..

 ..and once in a rather esoteric little volume called 'Secrets of the Ninja' by M Hatsumi!!


A lot of Ninjutsu's taijutsu (hand techniques) are (allegedly) based on very old traditional Japanese MA's (koryu).. some of which may have influenced  karate, so its possibly not too wierd. It was still quite a shock to see that very familiar arm position and back-stance in one of the 'enemies' texts though.

Remind me on and I'll (try) and show it sometime.. its VERY grapply.. I dunno whether its the 'right' bunkai, but its an interesting possibility.

PS. Yes I WAS caught reading their 'secrets' and yes it DID put me in a lot of trouble.

[siwan]

The arm break application is what I was first told when first learning it. There are many variations and as long as you have an image of  what you re doing when performing it, it doesn't matter if it's one or the other. 

[gungnir]

we also train it as an arm break technique. Sometimes it is difficult to find the right distance in bunkai so I think it is good to train it too as a punch attack. As further you go in Karate as more interpretations and explanations you get ... I am sure we will find some more interpretations for this technique ...

[Moley]

I like touse "what works"
For me.. Sranding up in "Street Kamae"  attack comes in 11 o clock high left. Block/break arm with left high uchi uke. Turn body and punch Jodan, Increase disrance liittle bit  Tettsui with left.

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