Topic: Kids and Karate

[gizmo]

The RANT thread has thrown up a number of interesting and important issues. One of the most important being the behaviour of kids in structured karate classes. I would be interested in hearing other people's opinions on kids and karate e.g. How should kids classes be structured, can you effectively teach a mixed adult/ children's class, at what age should kids begin karate training e.t.c.

Read the following article, it might provoke some reaction:
http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/101/12_kids.html

[Huw]

Very interesting article Gizmo.

My kids started training at 7 and 9 years of age. Looking back I'd say that 7 was just about OK for Aled - certainly no younger. Kids are all different but we need a 'line in the sand' somewhere. Anyone else got any views on this ?

One thing which may improve behaviour on Wednesday is mixing higher grades/ experienced adults in with (or around) kids and other beginers. Lineing up in grade order is fine for Monday and Thursday but may be counter-productive on Wednesday. Is this heresy ??

A few weeks ago Icy was given a 'ladies' group to teach on Wednesday. I thought that this was a brilliant idea as each student will get more personal attention. It also gives the student someone to 'look up to' (no pun intended) other than Moley and Hawi. How did you feel about this Icy ?

BTW - on the whole I think the kids on Wednesday behave remarkably well !! Until last weekend I was a football coach for 3 1/2 years - the difference in standards of behaviour is/was huge. On the whole they behave remarkably well for 40(ish) kids in a gymnasium.

H

[gizmo]

Jewels - come back to us you seem to have gone off on one

The reason I posted this thread was because I had an introspective moment recently when teaching kata. My personal opinion is that kata is of limited value without the study of bunkai. Much of the bunkai is by it's very nature extremely violent. This raises the issue of whether kids should be taught such things.

If the answer to the above is yes, then at what age? when do you know that it is safe to give them these ideas? how do we stand on moral grounds should a child use these skills indiscriminately? are there any insurance issues which may arise?

If no, then we need to question whether mixed classes really give adults and kids the optimal learning environment. In 'watering down' our training for children's sensibilities are we disadvantaging the adults?

Rob Redmond's article raises some important issues, not least those regarding child protection. Some of his arguments I think are a little weak. Karate can provide children with considerably more than 'after school day care'.

Another reason for this posting and canvassing for opinion is based a little bit in my lack of invention when it comes to making classes interesting for children so any ideas would be most welcome.

[h]

I don't think there are easy answers to this debate (isn't it the same with all  questions that are really worth asking?).

Gizmo - I share your concerns about teaching very violent bunkai to little kids - but the violence is out there anyway (even on Tom and  Jerry - or what ever they watch now) and the whole ethos of Shotokan (as I understand it ) is to teach respect for others; hence it teaches that karate is a skill that shouldnot be abused. This presupposes we have enough time to learn/teach the karate ethos to kids (or adults) who only train once a week or attend  spasmodically.

As to age limiting Seki juniors, I can see the arguements for and against. Certainly my own little Miss kiai is not really into karate yet; she refuses to practise with us in the kitchen (she will eat the toast). Yet she really looks forward to training sessions and is gaining something. Of course she messes about - but I think receiving appropriate levels of discipline from Seki instructors is great since it reinforces the discipline I try to instill at home, and is often delivered with a lightness of touch.

Whilst I am certain miss Kiai is far from ready to grade yet (and competence has to be the main issue in that debate) , I would be very sad if an age restriction were to exclude her (and others like her) from early exposure to Shotokan.
Like Jewels I very much value the pleasure of a shared hobby - I would not let her train alone (but that's my baggage) - and love knowing she's in the same room as me even if I'm concentrating exclusively on what I'm being taught. Don't we all wish our parents had introduced us to karate at such a tender age?
Mixed adult & kids classes must present difficulties to those leading the classes but I think both groups benefit. I love to see the little ones - some are inspirational and their energy and passion puts us to shame. Surely we as adults provide some congruent role modelling for them too?
h

I've not had chance to read the Redmond article yet _ get back to you thereafter - interesting debate

[h]

Jewels - use the post reply button (rather than new topic ) to post a reply  - otherwise the thread gets lost and the list of topics will extend forever.
Use the new topic button  when you can't see anywhwere else to put a posting or have thought of a new strand that might be of interest to others.

h

[Huw]

Mixed adult & kids classes must present difficulties to those leading the classes but I think both groups benefit. Surely we as adults provide some congruent role modelling for them too?
h

You need only look at the faces of the little kids grouped round Moleys feet on a Wednesday to know that they benefit enormously from the experience.

H

[admin]

In the interests of continuity here are Jewels 'stray' postings on the subject.

Divine

That was an interesting article! I don;t think we can lump all Kids together when we talk about them, they have a very strong individuality and different needs. When i first took my daughter to training the first thing that struck me was the calm and peace that reigned when Gwyn and Hugh bravely took the Helm, and i liked having the freedom to concentrate on myself whilst sharing the same space with Eva. The abuse issue is horrible to dwell on but i know its never far away and so it resides permanently in my head and i would never leave Eva alone at Karate even now. Our Kids have a very diffrent life than we did, but they don,t     have the freedom and exercise that they need because of these dangers and become over protected and lazy and have to be provided with avenues of socialising and exercise.safely.I certainly think Karate is a great oppurtunity for them to do just that, however seriously you take it, or not but it is a whole diffrent ballgame and again i think our instructers do a fine job and good role models as well.And its nice to share an interest with the little ones that is a bit more interseting for us all.

As well! Like most things i think what children get out of Karate ultimately depends on parentel enthusiasm especially with the little ones and how you can help to deliver it across to them in the right way. Discipline and focus can be sadly lacking a lot of the time, i include my own little tele addicts in this. But dumping them off their and expecting them to learn these lessons by themselves doesant really cut it. For those Kids that have the desire to try hard and perhaps more so for those that dont i think Karate is a great oppurtunity to learn some valuble lessons not just about Karate and allows great quality time together. As for structuring classes, i dont really know, their doing a great job though!

Yeah, I know sorry, pontificating on, i think i was talking to myself really. But i think the lesson works well, you have to be there y,know. But i do think that what children aernt ready for goes over there head, isent it just like playfighting anyway. Better to have controlled disciplined violance with the reality of getting hurt than all that fantasy stuff just for entertainment, anyway after all that Eva has gone off it for the moment so we won"t be there anyway, well she"s only "5".

[h]

You need only look at the faces of the little kids grouped round Moleys feet on a Wednesday to know that they benefit enormously from the experience.

I never doubted that the kids gain hugely from exposure to our various and gifted instructors H. I was arguing that the presence of even beginner-grade adults in kids' training sessions might be of benefit (and vv).
h